Discreet EV charging point?

[JohnW2]

Without the lease, you have a car that has a potential huge upfront cost of battery replacement for the new owner, many would be reluctant to purchase in this scenario. If the lease can be transferred then it will make the car a lot more saleable.

Maybe, but it would still be an additional £70/month (or whatever) 'running cost' - for both the original owner and subsequent ones.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I read that the battery issue is "solved" by some kind of lease, whereby you pay an ongoing monthly cost so that the battery can be replaced further down the line.

What does that do to the residual values of cars which are decades old? Remember that low fuel costs are not here to stay - as EFLI observes, if fuel duties fall away, the govt is not going to say "Oh well - that was fun while it lasted", they'll find another way to raise that revenue. Considering the likelihood of smart metering, it would be a no-brainer to increase the price of the electricity used for charging EVs.

 

[John D v2.0]

There's a lot of supposition, assumption, cynicism, and failure to look into the future here.
Think about what would be needed for EV fundamentally and think why that's impossible.
Electricity supply no good? Put a large diesel generator at the end of every street and in every car park. That will be more efficient than loads of small car engines. Maybe run some decent cables under the road so people can park at their house. Sell the land at petrol stations and make a few quid.
Want to get rid of the generators? Build more cables to more centralised generators. Don't like diesel? Make them gas or wind or something.
Just because something isn't possible today doesn't make it impossible. The cost of killing ourselves with air pollution is higher than spending on some infrastructure.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't know if it is cynicism or realism or experience.

I think your suggestion has raised interesting points and highlighted the problem.

Instead of a generator at the end of the street, how would the figures work out if everyone had an EV and their own generator?

How green would it be?

 

[motorbiking]

Some quick sums says 20M EVs on the road doing avg miles per year would be 155GW per day. An increase of about 50% on the typical domestic energy requirement

85kw ~300 miles, 20M vehiles doing 10,000 miles a year.

But - looking at it another way, my PV solar install (which is quite old) could just about cover the weekly "petrol" requirement of a Tesla Model S, if I was doing about 250-300 miles a week, for at least 6-8 months of the year.

So it could be the equiv of a reduction of fossil fuel consumption by at least 50%

 

[JohnW2]

There's a lot of supposition, assumption, cynicism, and failure to look into the future here. Think about what would be needed for EV fundamentally and think why that's impossible. Just because something isn't possible today doesn't make it impossible. The cost of killing ourselves with air pollution is higher than spending on some infrastructure.

All very true, but the timescales are an issue (for us), since the widespread major infrastructure changes being discussed would take many decades, if not 'generations'. I doubt that anyone currently much over the age of 30 is ever going to see the sort of 'future' you are talking about.

Just think of HS2. Originally proposed in 2009, the current estimate (to be believed when it is seen!) is that it will be fully completed in 2033 - about 24 years (and quite probably a fair bit more!). New nuclear power stations have not been much (if at all) better.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Demand at the moment is 36GW. Sometimes it may go over 40GW in the winter.

Your 50% more looks optimistic.

You can't say 155GW per day.

 

[John D v2.0]

I
Instead of a generator at the end of the street, how would the figures work out if everyone had an EV and their own generator?

How green would it be?

That's exactly economies of scale for you, own generator certainly wouldn't be better as it's basically an electrodiesel drive train (which has been done and can be efficient eg trains) with a battery in the way making it worse, I doubt even the end of the street would be better then your own generator. But see the other suggestion of charging from your microgeneration PV system, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[John D v2.0]

but the timescales are an issue

if you don't set off, you don't arrive.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Link not working.

 

[JohnW2]

if you don't set off, you don't arrive.

Very true, and if it's future generations you're concerned about, then fair enough. However, I'm sure that I won't be around to see the 'future' you're talking about - and nor, I suspect, will many of those reading this.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Demand at the moment is 36GW. Sometimes it may go over 40GW in the winter.

Is that total electricity demand across the UK ?
That goes well over 50GW peaks in winter, and can reach 60GW during those midwinter widespread anticyclones - like that in Dec 2010 - when both wind and solar PV are doing essentially f**k-all for several weeks.

From the PoV of peak demand, it's all very well saying "my solar PV will charge the car most of the year" UNLESS you are prepared to not use it (much or at all) during those periods when your solar PC won't charge it. (Gets on soapbox)That's one of the things I'm often tempted to pull up some of the worst eco-fashists on - they go on about being on green tariffs, but it's clear that they don't switch off the house when there's little wind and solar. Ie, they are quite happy to rely on those fossil fuel backup generators while campaigning for no nuclear, no coal, no fracking ...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is that total electricity demand across the UK ?

It was at the time - 32.5GW now.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

That goes well over 50GW peaks in winter, and can reach 60GW during those midwinter widespread anticyclones - like that in Dec 2010 - when both wind and solar PV are doing essentially f**k-all for several weeks.

I was going by the yearly graph. I don't know what happened in 2010.

 

[John D v2.0]

Link not working.

No idea what the link is for, maybe I hacked the forum? I can't see it when I edit so it must be automatic!

 

[JohnD]

We'd better get started on tidal barrages then.

What's that I see at Cromarty?