DOGE: the giant Con

[fillyboy]

• Many refineries need heavier crude oil to maximize flexibility of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel production. Today, most crude oil produced in the United States is light, including much of what’s produced in the Permian and Bakken. Light crudes are not good replacements for the heavy crude oil we get from Canada and Mexico.
• Re-tooling refineries to process solely U.S. crude oil (light crude) would cost billions — a risky investment that would take decades to permit, construct and eventually pay off. We lack the infrastructure (like pipelines) needed to cost effectively supply U.S crude oil and refined products to every region. Even if the economics of re-tooling our facilities worked, it can take close to a decade to permit and build pipelines in the United States.

How much oil does the United States import (and why)?

About 60% of the crude oil that runs through U.S. refineries is extracted right here at home. However, our refineries run on many different types of crude oil, some of which we don’t produce here or can’t economically transport. In those cases, we use imports.

www.afpm.org

That's interesting, I know there have been several short periods in time the the US has been energy independent but I guess that could just mean they're exporting more than they're importing rather than refining all their own product.

I'm still puzzled as to why with such a massive refinery capacity, it's geared more toward a type of crude that isn't so prevalent, unless the refineries are quite dated and the product requirement has changed over the years, or possibly the type of oil has changed as older wells have dried up.

That would be an interesting thing to look into.

 

[Odds]

Interesting?

 

[fillyboy]

Interesting?

Some years ago I used to play the stock market and made some good returns on smaller oil companies, high risk, very high risk but great potential returns. Today I've just got a small amount in an oil minnow with the rest in RR.
I found the oil co.s and the technicalities of drilling a fascinating subject, so much so it prompted me to buy a book called 'the prize' by Daniel Yergin which charts oil extraction and the history of all the oil majors, the people behind them and the politics. It's probably the most interesting book I've ever read.

 

[Brigadier]

Interesting?

From the point of view that they have a lot of (apparently) unsuitable capacity, yes.

It is not like the motah is a recent invention now, is it?

 

[fillyboy]

From the point of view that they have a lot of (apparently) unsuitable capacity, yes.

It is not like the motah is a recent invention now, is it?

Standard Oil of America were pretty big even before Cortinas, they 'iiluminated the world'. Whale oil was used in lamps before the first wells started pumping.

 

[MNW67]

That's interesting, I know there have been several short periods in time the the US has been energy independent but I guess that could just mean they're exporting more than they're importing rather than refining all their own product.

I'm still puzzled as to why with such a massive refinery capacity, it's geared more toward a type of crude that isn't so prevalent, unless the refineries are quite dated and the product requirement has changed over the years, or possibly the type of oil has changed as older wells have dried up.

That would be an interesting thing to look into.

From what I have read, these refineries were built before US shale oil became big. At that time, there was nowhere near enough US oil being produced. So the strategy was based on importing heavy sour oil from Venezuela, Mexico and Canada. Also, the refineries in the North East are plugged directly into the pipelines from Canada, which can only deliver heavy sour crude.

 

[Odds]

From the point of view that they have a lot of (apparently) unsuitable capacity, yes.

It is not like the motah is a recent invention now, is it?

Pumping out more oil isn't supposed to be the way of the modern world: it's very last century to boost an economy using fossil fuels. I'd expect nothing less from a trump administration.

 

[fillyboy]

Pumping out more oil isn't supposed to be the way of the modern world: it's very last century to boost an economy using fossil fuels. I'd expect nothing less from a trump administration.

Thank you Ed.

 

[Brigadier]

Pumping out more oil isn't supposed to be the way of the modern world: it's very last century to boost an economy using fossil fuels. I'd expect nothing less from a trump administration.

Ideologically, I'd agree, but that doesn't explain 'Murca having seemingly painted itself into a corner.

 

[Odds]

Ideologically, I'd agree, but that doesn't explain 'Murca having seemingly painted itself into a corner.

It's the GoP that's in a corner due to their stubborn insistence on withdrawal from the Paris Accord and pandering to the Oil Lobby. Kicking Indians off their land just to keep exploiting oil and gas is 19th century 'thinking'.

 

[fillyboy]

Ideologically, I'd agree, but that doesn't explain 'Murca having seemingly painted itself into a corner.

Seems that light/sweet oil at around 50% of production is set to increase to 70%, so the type of oil extracted has changed over time and the refineries are decades old and geared up to heavy sour.

You'd think they would have seen it coming.

https://www.fuelstreamservices.com/why-the-u-s-cant-use-the-oil-it-produces/

 

[Brigadier]

It's the GoP that's in a corner due to their stubborn insistence on withdrawal from the Paris Accord and pandering to the Oil Lobby. Kicking Indians off their land just to keep exploiting oil and gas is 19th century 'thinking'.

Like I already said, I agree that it is backwards thinking.

But (again, like I have already said), Orangina's proclamations don't explain 'Murca's decades-long (lack of) suitable refinery capacity.

 

[Odds]

Like I already said, I agree that it is backwards thinking.

But (again, like I have already said), Orangina's proclamations don't explain 'Murca's decades-long (lack of) suitable refinery capacity.

A swift g00gle tells me:

In 2023, the United States had an oil refining capacity of about 18.4 million barrels per day, which was overtaken by China as the world's largest. And their capacity increased by 2%; the second consecutive year of growth. It all depends on the kind of refining they do, as i understand it, there's all kinds of ways to refine specific fuels for industry.

 

[fillyboy]

A swift g00gle tells me:

In 2023, the United States had an oil refining capacity of about 18.4 million barrels per day, which was overtaken by China as the world's largest. And their capacity increased by 2%; the second consecutive year of growth. It all depends on the kind of refining they do, as i understand it, there's all kinds of ways to refine specific fuels for industry.

See, I told you it was interesting.

 

[Brigadier]