Downlighters

[iandandav]

Would like to fit these instead of conventional light fittings. Now is a ggod time for me as ceilings are down at the momeent.
A few questions as I have not had these lights in any previous dwelling.
1 Are there any recommendations to their positioning, i dont mean regs wise as I can find this out, but as to regards the functionality and asthetics etc.
2 How many is recommended for a small lounge and medium sized kithen.
How should they be spaced?
3 Do they generally have one switch operating them all?
4 Do people usually have conventional lighting aswell for strong illumination when needed.
5 Are they just connected in a line using one cable or is it more complex than that?
Thank you
I

 

[Steve]

1. they need to be pretty close as their lamps have tight beams - they arent designed for lighting rooms (seriously).

2. wouldnt recommend them in a lounge - they light they give isnt very relaxing - you'd need dimmers, which will cost you more money now, and will make the lamps blow quicker - halogens dont like being dimmed. In a kitchen, I would recommend something a little more utilitarian, something like this. You wont need half as many as these, and each fitting only uses half the energy of a halogen. I have two in my kitchen, which is medium sized. I also have a pendant over the table, because as I said downlighters are harsh, but particularly halogen.

3. Yes. But you can split them into areas, or intensity banks (so alternate lamps are on different switches, then you can make the whole room brighter or dimmer).

4. A table lamp perhaps. Generally their electric bill wont stretch any further after halogen lights are fitted.

5. Yes. Loop from one to the next.

By the way, halogen lights are conventional now. Why not try something different?

 

[iandandav]

Thanks for the info

By the way, halogen lights are conventional now. Why not try something different?

I havent got a clue about different types of lighting and their benefits and drawback. I have never had anything other than a pendent and a light bulb (energy efficient mind you). Can you recommend a good site that explains the different types and their uses etc?

 

[ColJack]

so you're going from 1 or 2 energy saving pendants at about 11W each to adequately light the room, to 400-600W of incandesant lights..?

try LED downlights or CFL downlights.


downlights are about 1000mm appart in a grid pattern in your average room to provide even light..

as said I wouldn't dim them, if you find that they're too bright then fit lower wattage lamps..

if you still want to dim them then don't use dimmers, use what I like to call "binary dimming".. wire them in 3 groups and turn one or more groups off to reduce the light levels..

you need to give thought to how the room will be used before installing them, maybe having the ones over the tv area switchable seperately for that cinema effect..
the ones by the windows also seperately switched, so that you don't have to light the whole room if it's a bit dim at the back in the early evenings to read the paper etc..

they are generally wired thusly ( with the connectors in a box and earths to the fittings if they require them.. )..
View media item 11287

 

[iandandav]

so you're going from 1 or 2 energy saving pendants at about 11W each to adequately light the room, to 400-600W of incandesant lights..?

try LED downlights or CFL downlights.


downlights are about 1000mm appart in a grid pattern in your average room to provide even light..

as said I wouldn't dim them, if you find that they're too bright then fit lower wattage lamps..

if you still want to dim them then don't use dimmers, use what I like to call "binary dimming".. wire them in 3 groups and turn one or more groups off to reduce the light levels..

you need to give thought to how the room will be used before installing them, maybe having the ones over the tv area switchable seperately for that cinema effect..
the ones by the windows also seperately switched, so that you don't have to light the whole room if it's a bit dim at the back in the early evenings to read the paper etc..

they are generally wired thusly ( with the connectors in a box and earths to the fittings if they require them.. )..
View media item 11287

Thanks
What is the situation if I wanted to put insulation in the ceiling too. Are they designed to be able to covered?
Do you need special covers?
How much space is required for them and any covers? They will be between downstirs ceiling and upstairs floor, so only the depth of a standard joist is available, is this enough?

 

[Steve]

What is the situation if I wanted to put insulation in the ceiling too. Are they designed to be able to covered?
Do you need special covers?
How much space is required for them and any covers? They will be between downstirs ceiling and upstairs floor, so only the depth of a standard joist is available, is this enough?

Halogen downlighters are practically unworkable with insulation due to the heat involved. Wouldnt recommend it.

Something like this runs cool (compared to halogen) and extremely bright (IMO you could replace 4 halogen lights with one of these, due to the wide light spread). I just had mine running for 10 minutes and they just seem to keep getting brighter!!!

To emphasise my energy saving point, the downstairs of my house is lit with 124 watts of light. Thats 8 fixtures. Outside is lit with 26 watts. Upstairs is lit with 38 watts (2 bed + landing) (plus a ghastly 200 watt halogen monstrocity in the bathroom, yet to be changed).

Can you see a point here? I'm lighting my entire house with compact fluorescent with less energy than it takes to light ONE ROOM with halogen.

 

[iandandav]

What is the situation if I wanted to put insulation in the ceiling too. Are they designed to be able to covered?
Do you need special covers?
How much space is required for them and any covers? They will be between downstirs ceiling and upstairs floor, so only the depth of a standard joist is available, is this enough?

Halogen downlighters are practically unworkable with insulation due to the heat involved. Wouldnt recommend it.

Something like this runs cool (compared to halogen) and extremely bright (IMO you could replace 4 halogen lights with one of these, due to the wide light spread). I just had mine running for 10 minutes and they just seem to keep getting brighter!!!

To emphasise my energy saving point, the downstairs of my house is lit with 124 watts of light. Thats 8 fixtures. Outside is lit with 26 watts. Upstairs is lit with 38 watts (2 bed + landing) (plus a ghastly 200 watt halogen monstrocity in the bathroom, yet to be changed).

Can you see a point here? I'm lighting my entire house with compact fluorescent with less energy than it takes to light ONE ROOM with halogen.

Thanks steve. I will look into those

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's not just the incandescent v fluorescent v LED v induction v discharge v whatever-lamp-technology which is an issue, it is also the format.

2" diameter recessed downlighters, which for good reason are also known as spotlights, are not designed to provide general room illumination. They came out of the retail display market, and were designed to spotlight, or highlight, individual items, small areas, specific decorative/architectural features etc. The characteristics required for lighting like that are fundamentally different from those required for lighting up a room.

Yes, you can make them work for that, but at the cost of needing far more wattage than if you used lighting actually designed for the purpose. On any comparison of like-for-like lamp technology you'll need a lot more if you use what are, in effect, mains powered torches set into your ceiling than if you used a light designed to do what you're asking it to do.

Those recessed PL lights, for example, are 26W, but one of those will do a much better job of lighting up a room than 2 or 3 2" recessed lights fitted with 9 - 12W CFLs.