Driving without the clutch ?

[IanDB]

I saw it once on a film. Can't remember it's name though.

Ice Cold In Alex?

BTW, have you ever tried to start an engine using a crank handle? Not the simplest of tasks - and then it can always kick back!

It's quite straightforward to drive without using the clutch. You just have to be gentle with the gearbox and know when the engine revs match the speed of the car and the gear you want to select.

You can start a car in first gear but it doesn't feel very clever, and as AdamW says it's useful to know that in case you stall on a railway crossing. However if it was an emergency I'd leg it as trying to move a car using the starter motor takes time.

 

[david and julie]

Adam... just curious how you went on today when you changed gear without your clutch?

 

[masona]

He's having his gearbox repairs so you won't hear from him yet

 

[pipme]

As well as level crossings you can use the first gear and starter motor to get you out of fords when you have gone in too fast and water has done for the electrics.

Also, for flat batteries I have one of the those starter boxes that you clip on. They're fairly cheap these days. AFAIR mine was under 20 quid. Good xmas present for someone who has a iffy battery, or leaves their lights on

Thinking about this. Renault Scenic and others ... insert key card ... press start up button little more than momentarily and release ... Under normal conditions starts ok, starter drops out automatically.
Have wondered about being able or not to drive on the starter motor for that short distance to safety given this type of start up.
-- Topical, engine dies on unmanned level crossing, I think I would go for 1st and starter motor drive clear.

 

[masona]

Topical, engine dies on unmanned level crossing, I think I would go for 1st and starter motor drive clear.

Give me a Austin 7 anytime, no complication of management system & all the electronics gadget, a 4 sparking leads and a starter handle will just do for me

 

[Malc]

I take it that those with starting handle cars know NOT to tuck their thumb around the handle put to keep it the same side as the fingers?

That way if it kicks back the handle comes out of your hand. Put your thumb around I you run the risk of a broken thumb. Incidentally the this type of thumb fracture has one other common cause - leaving your thumb out when punching someone. Since starting handle are rare these days you might find it hard to convince A&E how you got the injury

 

[david and julie]

Suppose it would also be a pain on FWD cars taking off a front wheel to get at the bottom pulley too!

 

[pipme]

Front wheel drive raise one wheel using jack and spin the bu99er in 3rd or something ... how does a normal diff work ? drives easier wheel to turn ? Hence wheel in the air can drive engine ... Worth a shot if really desperate !! Remember how we used to jog the mini engine part revolutions when setting timing, same principle.
P

 

[AdamW]

Adam... just curious how you went on today when you changed gear without your clutch?

Far too much traffic on the way home, didn't have the bottle to try clutchless gearchanges! Perhaps tonight if I remember!

Or maybe I could look into fitting a Citroen DS hydraulic clutch. Clever idea, engine-generated hydraulic pressure is higher at higher revs, so gear changes are quick when you are caning it, slow when you are just cruising.

Have wondered about being able or not to drive on the starter motor for that short distance to safety given this type of start up.

I don't think they have level crossings in France anymore, certainly not on the TGV routes. So possibly the engineers didn't consider this when designing the Scenic!

but how safe is it, to push a car down a hill, with no-one in the drivers seat

You would have to be pretty brave/stupid to try that with any more than the slightest of inclines! I had a Saturday job in a bakers, one morning I could see someone having trouble starting their car so offered to give them a shove. Really wished I hadn't, push-starting a Ford Granada V6 is tough at the best of times, but seeing as I was only 10 or 11 stone at the time I didn't have much too lean against the car with! I assumed he would help by pushing at the A-frame and jumping in, but he just got in and shut the door! I managed it though, should have got a medal or something for that.

 

[ninebob]

I've never tried driving too far without the clutch, I can recall only one time about 4 years ago when I had a Panda(!) and only drove it as far as the garage!

Now have any of you done any distance without the brake? (!!!)

I did, with my last car, the 405. Just after it failed the MOT it started making a horrendous scraping noise when slowing down (clearly metal-to-metal). I had already decided I was going to replace it anyway, so I made the best of the situation between the MOT actually running out and my purchase of a new car.

You learn to judge junctions in advance, change down, and use the gearing to slow the car. Into first, clutch control, and you'd be surprised.

I genuinely beleive it makes you a better driver. That last week, I can honestly say I went to and from work without touching the brake pedal once.

Then I bought the Xantia, and it was lovely to have use of 3 pedals again!!!

 

[david and julie]

ninebob said.

I genuinely beleive it makes you a better driver. That last week, I can honestly say I went to and from work without touching the brake pedal once

Couldn't agree more here mate, have you been in a car with anyone who as recently passed their test? I think they now teach you to pass rather than drive! They seem to rely on brakes or WHY working properly and never make any allowance for a problem.

 

[ninebob]

To be fair to new drivers, this is how they are taught now. I include myself in this too, I only learnt how to drive without brakes out of neccessity.

 

[TexMex]

To be fair to new drivers, this is how they are taught now

You're right. Recently had a dissagreements with my daughter over this. She comes at me with "Dad, don't you know it's, Gears for Going, Brakes for stoping!" She then argues that "It's cheaper to replace brake pads than clutches". I then counter this with "But if you value your clutch so much, why do you sit at traffic lights, in gear with your foot on the clutch". Her answer "Because that's what your supposed to do".

She never learned hand signals either. So when I ask "What would you do if your indicators fail" . She replies "You'll fix them for me, won't you daddy, because you love me". How come, when I've won an argument, I feel like i've lost.

Adam, you'll find that if you make casual gear changes, you don't even need to think when changing up without a clutch. I've tried it in every modern motor I've driven. Just put your foot to the side of the clutch pedal and use an imaginary clutch pedal instead. As you put pressure on the lever, while the revs are coming down, once the revs match, it just slides in.

changing up, you just treat it as if you're changing up, but deliberately miss your gear. ie. Foot down on imaginary clutch pedal, into neutral, Foot off the imaginary clutch (as if to pull away in the new gear), (right foot goes down automatically), As the revs go up, you notice you're not in gear, so you put your imaginary clutch pedal back down, and slip it into gear.

I thought my skill, in this area, was a throwback to my greenlaning days in my old Series 1 Landie, but getting my wife and daughters to try it, I've found that it's not my natural tallent at all. It just works for everyone! (believe me, my wife has no natural talent for driving. It's not uncommon for her to come into the house, toss the keys at me and say, "You'll have to park the car, someones knicked my parking space!" )

On modern cars, when the revs are not right, the gear change becomes stiff. If you apply no more force to the gear lever than you would normally, this holds the gearchange off untill the revs match. If you are making a casual unrushed gearchange, you barely notice this slight hesitancy.

 

[TexMex]

I saw it once on a film. Can't remember it's name though.

Ice Cold In Alex?

I think you're right I get it confused with Flight of the Phoenix.

BTW, have you ever tried to start an engine using a crank handle? Not the simplest of tasks - and then it can always kick back!

Tell me about it. I've had some rather nasty experiences with Dumper Trucks over this. Using the correct technique (thumbs over the top), instead of breaking your thumbs, the handle flies out of your hands, does a full revolution and then slaps you on the back of your forearms. You can save your forearms getting bruised by leaning forwards, as you are starting it. In then event that it backfires, your arms are protected, by your FACE. Once you've done this a few times, someone may be nice enough to introduce you to the decompression valve

 

[masona]

have you been in a car with anyone who as recently passed their test? I think they now teach you to pass rather than drive! They seem to rely on brakes or WHY working properly and never make any allowance for a problem.

Yes, my son's just passed his test last week and when I was teaching him as well as the driving school, apparently I'm driving it all wrong, well not wrong but differently ! I prefer my method or how I was taught to drive by using the clutch which give you full control of the car up to when stopping at the traffic light. If I drive the way it should be just by using the brakes it may make more lazy driver coasting the car by leaving the gear in neutral if they see a red traffic early.

hmmm, maybe I need a refesher driving lesson or get my son to teach me