Dropping the Ceiling/Floor for a loft Conversion.

[rob82]

Hi,

I'm sorry if some of these questions have already been answered elsewhere in this forum. If they have, can someone please point me in the right direction?

We've just bought a small, 100 year old, mid terrace property and are in the process of a complete renovation. It wasn't intended to be, but it has resulted in everything being taken down to the brick and most of the wood work being replaced, downstairs at least.

We always intended to convert the attic at a later date, after we moved in and funds allowed. However, our neighbour informed us that they tried to do the same and found that they had to lower the first floor ceiling to cater to the conversion, which meant that they ended up re-doing a lot of their work. We still don't want to fully convert the attic, but as the house is in it's current state, we thought that it would be best to do the ceiling/floor now.

My main questions are:

Do i need to consult building control? I know that for a full conversion i would, but i only want to lay the joists and i don't intend to cover the work with floor boards, only plaster board the ceiling below.

The shortest span is between the two adjoining walls and is 367cm. Is 9"x2" sufficient or would you suggest 9"x3"?

Can i screw the wall hangers straight to the adjoining walls or is it better to first screw beams to the walls and attach the hangers over them?

Do i need to inform my neighbours and get a party wall agreement? If so, is there a standard document i can use and where can i find it?

I've got a horrible feeling that the current roof joists run in the opposite direction to how i intend to run mine. Can i simply remove the current timbers or are they likely to be supporting the roof? How do i determine if they are supporting the roof or not?

Can i fit the staircase to the loft without building control, as long as i don't cover any work up?

This is our first home and we are doing everything on a very tight budget. I've done a fair bit of building work in the past and feel confident to tackle most things, i'm also happy to pass things on if i'm out of my depth. I particulary find building regs and the lack of information a mind field.

Any help, guidance, experience, suggestions, recommendations, etc, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Rob

 

[jeds]

rob, just to cover the building regs issue first. There's nothing stopping you doing the work now and applying for building regs to formalise the works at some later date. As long as everything can be inspected later on I don't see a problem with that.

Building control will tell you that everything you do is at risk. This means there is no guarantee the overall project will be passed at a later date - not just the work you have allready done. Obvious really but important to bear in mind. What you should do is work the scheme carefully through to the end to make sure you have everything covered and that you will be able to complete to regulations. This means not just getting the structure right but also the stairs, means of escape, ventilation, thermal, etc.

Also bear in mind that regulations do change - not long ago there was a small change in the timber section sizes. If you had done this a year ago you might now find the joists you fitted are not big enough. Thermal regs change regularly so make sure you will be able to physically accommodate enough insulation - plus a bit.

Fire protection is a biggie - as is means of escape. How will you achieve that? Might be worth installing fire doors now rather than later? Also watch for load bearing of existing walls. I've have sometimes had difficutly in the past justifying additional loads on old foundations due to loft conversion. The loads are actually fairly minor in the scheme of things but sometims BC just can't get to grips with it.

As for party walls, if you cut into or attach anything to the party wall you should serve notice under the Party Wall etc. Act . There are standard forms but you need to be careful - particularly if your neighbour is likely to be awkward. If you get a full stop in the wrong place it can invalidate the notice. If your neighbour is ok you can agree it all by getting them to sign an informal letter. If you don't serve notice there are no penalties but you run the risk that your neighbour can - in theory - get the work stopped and if you cause damage you will not benefit from the protection of the Act.

 

[rob82]

Thank you very much for the reply.

I think that i may go to building regs and ask for advice on everything and see what the current standards are. I may then try to cover myself by going one step above their requirements. At this stage i only really want to build the floor structure so i can start work on everything below. The rest of the house needs finishing before i can consider a full loft conversion. I'm just trying to cover myself and not have to redo things at a later date, but in an ideal word, someone would do it all for me!

With our neighbour having done everything before, they have been quite useful and we are probably going to follow in their foot steps with most things. I'm currently looking for the best opportunity to ask to borrow their drawings. I also think that neighbours on both sides will be fine with any work, but it's probably a good idea to get everything on paper. It's amazing how the nicest people can change!

With regard to escape routes from the loft, i know it's not ideal, but i think we are going to build a hall in the corner of the kitchen with a fire door. We will then remove it after the building inspector comes round and signs it off. I wouldn't normally want to do this, but the house is so small, i really can't justify taking up a corner of the kitchen. Especially, that if we had bought the house last year and got it signed of before April, we would have been fine.

Many thanks again and this is a great website, it's nice to find somewhere that people aren't trying to sell you something!

Cheers

 

[rob82]

Hi,

After much deliberating, we've decided to get a builder in to do a full loft conversion, with building control involved.

It's not worth the gamble!