Dust Extractors - Numatic?

[a72o1]

I'm looking for a class L or M extractor for a home renovation project.

Looking around the Festool products look popular.

I've previously found the Numatic (Henry) stuff to be well made for domestic use. They do have a TEM390A class M product. It's priced about the same as the lower end Festool models and bags are cheaper too. Only problem is that I can't find any reviews.

https://numatic.co.uk/product/tradeline-tem390a/

Does anyone have any experience with these?

 

[flameport]

Only problem is that I can't find any reviews.

most reviews are fake
those that are not are massively biased towards the tiny minority that had problems
of those, a substantial percentage are due to problems of their own making.

 

[opps]

When I first started decorating I purchased an Numatic- it was the George sized model with the auto power on. From memory it was about £150 20 years ago.

As soon as I could afford a Festool dust extractor, I left the Numatic at a mate's house and never bothered to retrieve it.

In those days, the bags were awful. They would split after about 15 minutes of sanding powder based fillers. The dust would go straight through the motor and in to the room. When I complained to Numatic, they blamed the EU. They gave me some cock'n'bull story about the EU forcing them to use rubbish glue on the seams. To be fair, they did send me out a "pre-filter" for free. After each 15 minutes, I had to remove the dusty pre-filter and stand in a dust cloud as I shock the dust away.

My first Festool was vastly superior- but 3 times more expensive. The hose was antistatic, much longer and not rigid. In those days, the bag would still split, but after hours rather than 15 minutes, and the factory fitted filters protected the motor.

The Festool was vastly superior in all respects rather than cost.

If I were unable to justify the cost of a Festool, I would look at Nilfisk as a starting point- in part because I left Numatic with a bad taste in my mouth (and lungs). That said, I do recall Jobandknock once recommending a Vtuf(?) M class dust extractor. He is probably the person who's advice I am most likely to pay attention to around here when it comes to tools. Hopefully he will be along soon.

Opps, I forgot to add, I am talking about Numatic of old. I know nothing about their new vacs. Going back to festool- I would advise against their smallest dust extractor- the CT Sys. I have one, I am glad that I have one small enough to carry on the tube, but it loses suction really quickly as the bag becomes clogged.

 

[flameport]

This: https://www.metabo.com/com/en/tools...acp-602058000-all-purpose-vacuum-cleaner.html
is in the same price range, and is vastly superior to the Numatic one in just about every way.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Is the OP aware of the differences between these categories? Just to make you aware, if you are looking for a class L or class M vacuum it will inevitably not be a cheap option. These are industrial tools made in lower quantities than mass market kit, so the target market for these tools does tend to be companies and people in the trades.

Of the standards, class L is the lower filtration standard. But whilst it is suitable for softwood dusts and dusts such as plaster and the like, it is not adequate for hardwood dusts or dusts from materials such as plywood, chipboard and MDF. They require Class M extraction.

For work I often use a Metabo ASR2025 L-class vacuum fitted with M class filters and/or a newer Metabo ASR35M M-class vacuum (both made by Starmix). The biggest difference between them is that a true M-class vacuum has a finer filter thsn an L-class one, but also has a built in monitor which constantly checks for filter blockage and warns the user if they are occurring (and in the case of the 35M automatically shakes the filters clean). The biggest problem with industrial M-class vacuums with automatic filter cleaning is probably their cost - somewhere in the region of £500 to £900 for a 25 to 35 litre machine

In domestic terms it is therefore worth knowing that a HEPA filter vacuum has almost the same level of fine particle filtration as an M-class vacuum and that when fitted with a pre-filter cyclone, such as the Triton unit, will perform as well as an industrial M-class vacuum. That makes it possible to get good filtration, albeit without the automatic filter cleaning, at a lower price. This pre-filter arrangement is no longer a gimick - firms such as Festool have introduced their own OEM pre-filter cyclones in the last few years, and whilst they are bulky, they do genuinely improve dust extraction performance and filter life (used the Festool one when cutting cement board and very satisfied)

Another way to go is to buy one of the newer, low cost M-class vacuums which have come onto the market from Trend and V-Tuf. These vacuums lack the auto clean filters and are rather small in capacity (10 to 15ltr) but if preceded by a pre-filter with a decent size drop box would be an affordable solution

The only other point I'd make are never vacuum up soot - it permanently clogs most primary filters - and do look for a machine with washable filters

I've deliberately made no specific recommendations. I use Metabo models - they do the job. Opps uses Festool - I've used the CTL35M and again, it does what they say it will. I've also used a much cheaper V- Tuf and been surprised at how good it was for the money - it just needs more frequent emptying.

 

[Diver Fred]

J&K - do mean the Triton DCA300 dust collector bucket?

interested to know as I'm trying to find a sensible, affordable solution to wood dust collection.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes. I originally tried one out fitted between a cordless circular saw and an old Dyson DC02 vacuum and the results were surprising. Although extraction from the saw wasn't brilliant (that's a function of the guard/dust hood design as much as anything, I feel), about 90% of the sawdust collected from chipboard or MDF ended up in the collector and not inside the vacuum, meaning thay the vacuum filters stayed lot cleaner. The cyclone also has a clear body so you can see how full it is. Against that, I don't thing it is all that robust, so I wouldn't take it onto a building site without enclosing it in some way to protect it from the "idiot brigade". It also has a relatively low capacity.

I started to address these issues by buying a cast aluminium cyclone off eBay with the intention of building my own drop box beneath it, but because the firm supplied me with a Festool CTL36 and the clip-on pre-filter cyclone (CT-VA20) to cut cement fibre boards I haven't got round ro finishing the task yet

 

[Diver Fred]

Thank you. Useful info.

 

[opps]

I started to address these issues by buying a cast aluminium cyclone off eBay with the intention of building my own drop box beneath it, but because the firm supplied me with a Festool CTL36 and the clip-on pre-filter cyclone (CT-VA20) to cut cement fibre boards I haven't got round ro finishing the task yet

During lock down, I purchased an aluminium cyclone on ebay. I wanted something conductive. I didn't notice at the time of ordering that is was only about 15cm tall.

My interest was originally piqued by the CT-VA20, prior to that I had been aware of the 3rd party Dust Deputy types of products. Unfortunately, I am still not convinced that they will help me when sanding fillers. If you get really bored at work one day, can you let a decorator try it

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Unfortunately, I am still not convinced that they will help me when sanding fillers. If you get really bored at work one day, can you let a decorator try it

I have to admit that i haven't tried the Festool unit on lightweight fillers - only on cement fibreboard and hardwood plywood.

I love that, "if you get bored..."! Fat chance where I work.