Earth Cable Route

[GarfieldTheFirst]

Hi,
I'm currently refitting the whole kitchen. To reduce costs I have found a sparky who will do all the Cert & Testing etc. I however need to do all the channelling & fitting backboxes, pulling cables etc. ready for him to come in & connect, test etc. I would ask him, but he is away for the next few weeks and I need to have the "routes" already for him on return.
The question I have is relating to getting the earth cable route to the kitchen cold water pipe from the earth block near the Meter.
The water pipe enters under the sink in the kitchen. I have not positioned any backboxes close to the sink, but the dishwasher will be the nearest electrical item, under the sink.
So do I run it in with an exisiting cable route and then exit it near the dishwasher? Or create a separate channel & conduit (but this can then be accidently drilled as no obvious electrical component nearby). I have discovered that the existing earth embedded in the wall has had the kitchen cabinets screwed through the earth cable, so its a good job it is being done.
Suggestion/pictures anything to assist will be helpful.
Thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

Follow the cable route and bring it out near the dishwasher and clip it on the wall behind the kitchen cabinets.

What size earth cable are you using?

I assume the electrician will be able to inspect your cable routes BEFORE they are plastered over?

PS Wish I could afford to go away for a few weeks

 

[bernardgreen]

PS Wish I could afford to go away for a few weeks

If you did nothing but charge for signing off other people's DIY work then you could afford to go away for a few weeks.

But then you might be sent away for a few weeks if someone died as a result of the DIY work you had signed off as your own work.

 

[GarfieldTheFirst]

PS Wish I could afford to go away for a few weeks

If you did nothing but charge for signing off other people's DIY work then you could afford to go away for a few weeks.

But then you might be sent away for a few weeks if someone died as a result of the DIY work you had signed off as your own work.

I would not normally reply on quotes made but here goes:-
I Love the way sometimes people(not all) reply without reading the whole context in Forums. The comment on "signing off as DIY work as your own", is not the case. Part P allows for Third party work. It will be him doing the connecting & testing (his own work actually), and the conduit & fixing will be on the paperwork as provided and fitted by third party (which is allowed), not the accusation you are making of him pretending it is his work! He has already inspected the conduit positions & depth/fixing etc, and he has told me it is above the standard he has seen by many "qualified electricians". Also I was an apprentice of his 25 years back, but as I left the industry over 15 years ago that then means I am can no longer carry out work of my own, so I am following this to the letter legally! and that is where the third party part P is useful. Strangely not all electricians are corrupt and most do things by the book. Sometimes it happens, but this guy has worked all his life and has done it by the book all his life, the same way as I have, and to have people always accusing others of corruption shows a shallow mind and contempt for others doing well. Please think before replying and look at what you do through life yourself rather than always hammering others.

I am cutting the channels mounting the conduit & pulling his supplied cable. He will connect and certify & test. Most electricians employ "trainees" who mostly do the "monkey work", but charge a fee to the customer as if it is them doing it. So how does that electrician sign off any paperwork as his own work, when really his apprentice/trainee/monkey has actually done the work? um..... think about it......

Any other responses so far greatfully received, not the "Negative" ones.
Its a shame that the good use of these sites for information is often miss used.

 

[GarfieldTheFirst]

Follow the cable route and bring it out near the dishwasher and clip it on the wall behind the kitchen cabinets.

What size earth cable are you using?

I assume the electrician will be able to inspect your cable routes BEFORE they are plastered over?

PS Wish I could afford to go away for a few weeks

Thanks for your information - Constructive & very helpful. All routes so far checked. Its just I forgot to ask about the earth route. He has already supplied the cable ready.

 

[bernardgreen]

Its a shame that the good use of these sites for information is often miss used.

it is valid information that an electrician cannot sign off work done by others.

To reduce costs I have found a sparky who will do all the Cert & Testing etc.

If that had read "" To reduce costs I have found a sparky who will do all the Design, Supervision, Cert & Testing etc. "" then there would be far less concern.

A few years ago a local electrician "signed off" a DIYer's installation. When the house caught fire the insurance company took the electrician to task. The claim wasn't paid and the electrician was penalised. Ironically it was not an electrical fault that caused the fire but the forensic investigation had found electrical work that did not comply with the certificates the electrician had signed.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Part P allows for Third party work.

No, it doesn't.
There are proposals but they have not been implemented (yet?).

It is true that he can supervise you doing some of the work but then you should be asking him these questions.
This would not be the proposed 'third party inspection'.

It will be him doing the connecting & testing (his own work actually), and the conduit & fixing will be on the paperwork as provided and fitted by third party (which is allowed),

Only if you sign the design and construction part of the Installation Certificate but your questions suggest you are not 'competent' to do this.

not the accusation you are making of him pretending it is his work! He has already inspected the conduit positions & depth/fixing etc, and he has told me it is above the standard he has seen by many "qualified electricians".

That's fine IF he is supervising but HE is away.

Also I was an apprentice of his 25 years back, but as I left the industry over 15 years ago that then means I am can no longer carry out work of my own,

That is not the case.

so I am following this to the letter legally! and that is where the third party part P is useful.

It may be that you are just using the wrong term.

Strangely not all electricians are corrupt and most do things by the book. Sometimes it happens, but this guy has worked all his life and has done it by the book all his life, the same way as I have, and to have people always accusing others of corruption shows a shallow mind and contempt for others doing well. Please think before replying and look at what you do through life yourself rather than always hammering others.

We have heard it all before.

I am cutting the channels mounting the conduit & pulling his supplied cable. He will connect and certify & test. Most electricians employ "trainees" who mostly do the "monkey work", but charge a fee to the customer as if it is them doing it. So how does that electrician sign off any paperwork as his own work, when really his apprentice/trainee/monkey has actually done the work? um..... think about it......

The term is 'donkey work'
They are not on holiday while it is being done, having informed their apprentices to go on a forum if they get stuck.
See above.

Any other responses so far greatfully received, not the "Negative" ones.
Its a shame that the good use of these sites for information is often miss used.

It is a DIY site; not "please tell me every step so that I may rewire my house".

You could do it all yourself by informing the Local Authority; all you have to be is 'competent'.

 

[JohnD]

To reduce costs I have found a sparky who will do all the Cert & Testing etc. I however need to do all the channelling & fitting backboxes, pulling cables etc. ready for him to come in & connect, test etc. I would ask him, but he is away for the next few weeks

I think I know the electrician you mention, he's often mentioned on here.

As he seems to be continually away on holiday, at funerals, or off sick, and cannot ever be contacted by phone and email, I have never been able to understand how he ever gets any work done.

 

[securespark]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To reduce costs I have found a sparky who will do all the Cert & Testing etc.

What about Design, and Construction?

This is the declaration on an EIC - I've highlighted parts of it:

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

So if he only does the inspection & testing, how can he sign a declaration to say that he also did design & construction?

I however need to do all the channelling & fitting backboxes, pulling cables etc. ready for him to come in & connect, test etc. I would ask him, but he is away for the next few weeks and I need to have the "routes" already for him on return.

Then you must wait for his return - nothing else is acceptable, and that's all there is to it.

 

[ericmark]

I seem to have a problem with this design thing. To me we can design our system to make use of existing building construction even to the point of drawing cables through existing conduit.

We can also select not to use existing ways and often I have not used existing cut outs in floor boards but instead drilled a new hole.

I design my installation taking into account existing building condition but the design is still mine not the person who may be 25 years ago drilled a series of holes for his cables which I am now replacing.

If some one was to have pulled in cables ready then yes I am not designing but where some one has left a blue rope to allow me to if I chose to use a duct under a road way then my design is to utilise that ducting.

As to the question the answer will depend on existing wiring as with RCD protection it's possible the earth wire is not required. Here of course design does raise its head so did the electrician ask for a route to be made for a bonding conductor?

I have often come to a boiler to find some one has installed a signal box full of earth wires linking every pipe. This was not done by the electrician but a plumber the electrician had wired up the FCU and latter taken the supply from the FCU to the boiler but it was the plumber who went OTT with the earth wires.

This does raise and interesting consideration is the earthing of pipe work considered as installing a circuit? One would hope not! to complete the circuit there would have to be a fault.

When a plumber connects up all those earth wires does he make out a minor works or installation certificate? I think not.

The more I think about earthing the more I think of where electricians had very little if any involvement. On a new build we as electricians may connect an earth wire to the re-bar. But it's the steel fixer who has connected all that re-bar together not the electrician and it is unlikely the electrician will be present during the concrete pour.

So simple answer is run earth with all the other cables.

 

[GarfieldTheFirst]

Thanks to all that have provided constructive answers and a discussion on the subject raised.