Economics of the mad house!

Notch7 said:
Actually, I wasnt making a tuition fee / correlation.

I was responding to this, which appears to be some conspiracy theory suggesting the state wants people to remain uneducated:



The whole university thing isnt good. There has been a drive towards going to university for years, with the result that many students go that probably shouldnt and too many courses are plain wrong. University should have stayed as the place for high academic study.
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We simply did not create enough high paying jobs so that going to University was sold as being the hoop to jump through to get a higher paying job. High paying Jobs do not get created on the backs of Sports Direct and Amazon warehouse workers they need time, investment and tax breaks to encourage companies to create training schemes and jobs but then these same companies get whacked by Employers Nat ins and other employment taxes.

Cutting Corp taxes was one the dumbest policies by Dumborne as it was pointed out the taxes would fall on employees in one way or another.
 
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One of big growth industries in the U.K is the sex aid/toy industry . They were discussing that on the radio last night.

Love /honey have grown 35% a year afaik .There 1st year turnover was 100 grand (?) its now 70 odd million The Uk spends more on sex aids then microwave ovens , hair dryers, leccy tooth brushes ect put together.

:)
 
SirGalahad said:
We simply did not create enough high paying jobs so that going to University was sold as being the hoop to jump through to get a higher paying job. High paying Jobs do not get created on the backs of Sports Direct and Amazon warehouse workers they need time, investment and tax breaks to encourage companies to create training schemes and jobs but then these same companies get whacked by Employers Nat ins and other employment taxes.

Cutting Corp taxes was one the dumbest policies by Dumborne as it was pointed out the taxes would fall on employees in one way or another.
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Im not sure that uni was particularly sold as the route to higher salary. I think students were encouraged to go under the guise of being anti elite. At the same time, polytechnics became universities, university courses grew exponentially, drifting further and further from pure academia or vocational into indulgent subjects with little career benefit.

Do we really need 50% of pupils going to uni?
 
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SirGalahad said:
We simply did not create enough high paying jobs so that going to University was sold as being the hoop to jump through to get a higher paying job. High paying Jobs do not get created on the backs of Sports Direct and Amazon warehouse workers
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I understand the anti neo liberal narrative here, but Im not sure I see the connection. with universities. I doubt there are vocational degree graduates like, architects, lawyers, doctors, accountants etc that cant get a job. Im sure there are media study graduates that cant get their dream job......
 
SirGalahad said:
Cutting Corp taxes was one the dumbest policies by Dumborne as it was pointed out the taxes would fall on employees in one way or another
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Corp tax was reduced but tax receipts from corporation tax grew significantly. It is very difficult to predict receipts from corportation tax and increasing it doesnt guarantee proportionate increases in revenue.
 
Notch7 said:
Corp tax was reduced but tax receipts from corporation tax grew significantly. It is very difficult to predict receipts from corportation tax and increasing it doesnt guarantee proportionate increases in revenue.
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I suggest after reading the analysis by the IFS and see how it's actually calculated. I am not sure if you are making the link that cutting tax rate lead to an increase in corp tax as a justification for the cut?

Government accounting is not the same as personal or corp accounting. The cost of the cuts is about £16.5bn a year in the short run.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9207
 
Notch7 said:
The whole university thing isnt good. There has been a drive towards going to university for years, with the result that many students go that probably shouldnt and too many courses are plain wrong. University should have stayed as the place for high academic study.
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But it's the perfect 'business model'...

Make jobs that previously didn't require a degree now need one in order to force more into university in order to make the education industry more profitable.

We have no real resources in this country, thus the people need to be bled dry to maintain the 'system'!

This is also not just here - the whole of the 'developed' world is encouraging the spread of university education.
However the UK and the US in particular are intent on indebting our children from the off.
Many other countries quite rightly use general taxation to educate their population!

My partner employs many graduates in what are relatively low paid jobs, because those graduates can't get employment in their fields of study.
Not so long ago those posts would have been taken up by those not having to 'borrow' a fortune to get what in many cases is a worthless piece of paper...

Notch7 said:
Given the number of UK universities high up in the world rankings, that seems unlikely.
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It is not just the quantity, but the quality of the education that counts.

Sure there are the usual 'prestige' UK universities that sit in the top tier (although they are slipping down the rankings), but there is no strength in depth.

My partner has to regularly correct the english in reports written by graduates from all levels in her company - and english is 'officially' her third language!

For all that UK students are paying, they are lucky to get 6 hours a week direct tuition.
One to one tuition is even worse - up to £1k an hour! - linky

Compared with what educational access a family member is getting in Germany (for free), it is a joke.
(now 18- 20 hours tuition per week, and 'one to one' as and when reasonably needed)

And sadly it's only going to get worse here, given the general education funding cuts in primary/secondary education...

Of course those who are able to pay will get a wonderful education, and regardless of their ability will go on to 'rule the roost'!
 
I think we should go back to the days where less than 20-25% of the population went to University. The new quartile should be able to attend very high quality polytechnics and the next high quality vocation based further/professional/trade based training. Its bonkers for both the state and the individual to expect half the population to get a degree.

I'm pretty sure bankruptcy doesn't cancel out student debt here either.

Those top 20-25% will easily generate vastly more tax than the cost of their education, the next 25% will probably still pay well over the avg tax. and the rest will get education that will help them succeed in their chosen job.

When I attended in the early 90s it was only about 20 hours a week of lectures and seminars, but you were expected to be doing double at least in terms of course work.
 
motorbiking said:
I think we should go back to the days where less than 20-25% of the population went to University. The new quartile should be able to attend very high quality polytechnics and the next high quality vocation based further/professional/trade based training. Its bonkers for both the state and the individual to expect half the population to get a degree.

I'm pretty sure bankruptcy doesn't cancel out student debt here either.

Those top 20-25% will easily generate vastly more tax than the cost of their education, the next 25% will probably still pay well over the avg tax. and the rest will get education that will help them succeed in their chosen job.

When I attended in the early 90s it was only about 20 hours a week of lectures and seminars, but you were expected to be doing double at least in terms of course work.
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Good post...

And the thing that is lost (as you have pointed out) is that we have always had a 'graduate tax' - because in the past those who gained a degree generally earned more and paid more back!

Coming to your point of "I'm pretty sure bankruptcy doesn't cancel out student debt here either", then debt 'owed' to the state in certain instances is not cancelled.

I just hope that we don't get to the point that exists in my partners country.
Whereby 'officially' all loans have to have a guarantor, and that obligation is passed on to direct relatives should the guarantor die and so on!

Thus a person could in theory be held to account for their grandparents debts!
 
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noseall said:
Gosh notchy, you and your RWR chums don't half like spouting those words - a lot. Do you even know what they mean and how they apply?
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Neo Liberal is exactly what the current Gov policies are.
 
Never ever, ever, ever, ever be a Guarantor. There are much better legal solutions to provide additional security.
 
noseall said:
Gosh notchy, you and your RWR chums don't half like spouting those words - a lot. Do you even know what they mean and how they apply?
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I wouldnt have thought Right Wing voters would use the term, since Neo liberal is a perjorative term to describe free market capitalism, policies of UK Tory government and to some extent the EU.
 
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