EICR opinion please

[SUNRAY]

Missing fusebase / blank - (C1)
Missing 'spark cover' where - It is necessary to maintain a suitable IP rating (C2)
...............................................................and where re-wireable fuses are fitted (C2)
45A device in way not rated to accept it (C2)
Undersized wiring on 45A fuseway (C2) could be a C1 depending on what it goes to, looks like 1mm
No schedule or labelling (C3)
RCD is of type AC (C3)

Sounds like a laundry list, but I'm guessing sunray could probably fix most of them in half hour with bits from his bucket of spares

No no Sorry, I can't accept your report... you have overstepped the mark:

All labelled...
Although the order is actually garden xxx xxx plug pond light.

 

[DIYWell]

Good opportunity to educate me as a non-sparky ...

So the EICR is going to flag a couple of C1s and the client has the option to carry on as before under the rationale of "It's not killed me yet, so it'll do".

Now let's say they want to show willing. They check that 45A, find it only powers a fire alarm and swap it with a 6A. Mr ebay sells them the fuse, a blank and a guard they can cut most of the face out so exposed wires can't be touched, then they label it up so they know what's what. That brings the board pretty much up to the standard that applied when it was installed. Job done, EICR pass?

Or are you going require the cables be glanded cables at the entries? Now is it a pass?

 

[ericmark]

Yes the first fuse carrier was often higher rated note the different colour of the spring, however this was because of the flash caused by removing the fuse which could cause this with a MCB it is not withdrawn while switched on, so not really a problem, and yes the main isolator was rated 60 amp, however if the DNO fuse is over 60 amp, then really the DNO at fault, not the owner, it is very unlikely that an old Wylex fuse box has been fitted after a 100 amp fuse is fitted, the DNO should never fit a 80 or 100 amp fuse where the isolator is 60 amp.

The situation with a 63 amp RCD feeding over 63 amp of MCB's is rather different. Where two RCD's are fed from a single DNO fuse it was felt that diversity could be taken into account. I know thoughts on this practice have changed, but the question as I keep on saying is not does it comply with BS 7671 that went when code 4 was removed, but is it dangerous or perpetually dangerous?

As again said many times 230 volt is always perpetually dangerous, so it is a bit of a daft question, however if we accept that post war installations were not perpetually dangerous when installed following the IEE/IET regulations, then the question is with any code C2 what has changed since the install?

It may well be that bonding in bathroom no longer exists due to use of plastic pipe, or cables have degraded, it is also possible it never did comply, my father had wall lights in the hall since the house was built in 1954, the rules at that time it seems were.

403 The application of Regulation 401 (iv) which exempts from the requirement of earthing metal which is so isolated that it is not liable to come into contact with live parts or with earthed metal, shall be restricted to the apparatus detailed in the following \clauses (i)-(ix):
(i) Short isolated lengths of conduit used for mechanical protection of tough-rubber- or p.v.c. -sheathed wiring.
(ii)Short unexposed isolated lengths of metal conduit used for the mechanical protection of cleated wiring where it passes through floors, walls, partitions or ceilings.
(iii)Short isolated lengths of catenary wire used with tough-rubber-sheathed or p.v.c.-sheather wiring systems, if screened by non-conducting material.
(vi) Lamp-caps.
(vii) Small parts such as screws or nameplates isolated by insulating material.
(viii) Metal chains for the suspension of lighting fittings, not in contact with flexible cord of the twisted type.
(ix) Lighting fittings using filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal.

Note the "mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched" with wall lights this was not the case, however it was wired when 12th edition was in force, don't know what that said, but we were suppose to have a PIR/EICR done every 10 years, so since code 4 was at that time still used, he should have been well aware many years ago of the 1966 changes in the regulations.

However only a few years ago the electrical safety council still published a photo of the old Wylex fuse box saying how they were still serviceable.

I know with my dad's house, it lost it's earth, it did have one, as I ruptured the fuse as a boy when I in error shorted line to earth, but some 40 years latter no sign of there ever being one. As to if originally used the water supply don't know, and the rubber wiring was in a state, he would not allow me to rewire the house, he said I could do it when he was gone.

When I came to do it, needed speed, mother had gone into hospital and wanted it done and dusted before her return. So used a scheme member firm mainly to ensure speed, but only just completed in the 12 weeks I had, which makes the 28 days allowed by the new landlord laws laughable.

As to correct procedure if the property fails, not sure, does one simply tell the tenants sorry it has failed the EICR you will have to leave until I have fixed the problems?

In the last month I have seen the problems, it was a caravan which it seems had been parked close to a hall of residence for years, and the owner would visit a few times a year, a blind eye was turned, until she sold it to a couple of guys who were going to use it 365 days a year, no longer could a blind eye be turned, TN-C-S supply, too close for building regs etc etc. The new guys were told it would need to be moved, tyres were rotten, corner jack were sized solid, there was no way that caravan was moving anywhere other than a scrap yard.

The problem was they should have never turned the blind eye, they should have told the previous owner it needed to go years ago. The same with things like EICR's, there is a tendency to turn a blind eye when you know only option is to stop renting it out for around 3 months to get the house done up.

 

[SUNRAY]

Putting this into perspective, in this instance the 'shed' is actually part of the house, a corridor running front to back of house, like this but a different property:

TBH I fully expected to find a correctly installed unit and an overzealous EICR inspection as so many seem to be
I did have enough blanks bases and 5 & 15A MCB and even a 6 way fuse cover. However this fusebox was a mess, this is after removing a handful of spiders web:

No internal covers

SWA gland and 4 cables in one hole with no protection, the lock ring wasn't anywhere near tightened:

Twin rubber flex (I very much doubt its as big as 0.75mm²) on 45A MCB in blue base (position 6)

(slots broken out/elongated to accept it) feeding a fluo light fitting, The silly thing is in the fitting there are 2x 3C&E wired for 2 way and a disused T&E wrapped with tape and live from a lighting circuit from main CU, restoring that and removing hard/perished rubber flex was far too obvious.

In the garden are 2 13A single sockets (one with pond pump plugged in) and both are wired with 2.5mm² 3C SWA back to shed, pump SWA is wired into SFCU (13A fuse) and 1.0mm² back to 5A MCB (position 5), other socket has DP switch and 2.5mm² back to 15A MCB (circuit 1). SFCU and DP switch are side by side metal clad and linked with bush

In the shed is DSSO with 2.5mm² back to 15A fuse (position 4)
100mA RCD took over 1 second to trip

Landlord was there and reckons this was the main fuse box prior to rewire end of last century when external meter box was installed.
We decided repair/restoration wasn't the best way to sort this so have Removed 1.0mm² T&E for pump and linked to DP switch, removed fuse box (as JW suggested) and replaced with DSSO. Left powered down awaiting 25A RCBO for main CU.

 

[SUNRAY]

Following a pathetic PM asking why we left only the new socket working.

When we arrived the submain had been disconnected in the main CU, therefore nothing in the shed was working. Didn't particularly matter as the property has officially been vacant for 2 months.

We fitted the existing SWA gland into a new DSSO and terminated the original 2x 2.5mm² as branches to the original DSSO and the FCU&DPswitch. That was left powered down awaiting replacement of 25A MCB with 25A RCBO. I have been advised this is now completed.

The shed light has been reinstated to a house lighting circuit and was fully functional when we left yesterday.

IE all 4 original accessories are now as functional as they were before.

We were tempted to and suggested, to landlord, move the 25A MCB to a RCD (split load board), he felt the better option was RCBO.

Also for the benefit of the pathetic PM; I apologise for not pointing out the size of the submain (4mm²) had being fed by a 25A MCB the rubber flex was in fact better protected by that than its 45A MCB.