Tyres are black because they are full of carbon to make them conductive so that the static electricity that builds up on the car as it passes through the air can discharge to ground.
Electricity Explosion
- Thread starter westie101
- Start date
Tyres are black because they are full of carbon to make them conductive so that the static electricity that builds up on the car as it passes through the air can discharge to ground.
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That would probably be a biggish bang.
Did have a quick look on YouTube, but there don't appear to be any reliable videos, just ones where people are claiming stick/half stick/quarter stick and the comments are full of other people saying "no way".
Did have a quick look on YouTube, but there don't appear to be any reliable videos, just ones where people are claiming stick/half stick/quarter stick and the comments are full of other people saying "no way".
K
kai
Are you sure it's not a faulty4mm street lighting cable burning all the way back to the main joint, and causing a flashover there?
Running 4mm cables protected by a 630amp fuse is a stupid idea at anytime - remember this is not China, it is England!
Running 4mm cables protected by a 630amp fuse is a stupid idea at anytime - remember this is not China, it is England!
The person inside is still safe as far as the electricity is concerned.
If there is a risk of fire then clearly the occupant(s) need to get out. As stated before, they need to jump clear so that they are never in contact with (or even close to) both the vehicle and the ground at the same time. In the case of a lorry, it is perfectly OK to stand on the step facing out, and just jump clear - somewhat harder with a car unless you are particularly agile.
The answer is very simple - you need to contact the DNO (either directly if you have that knowledge, or via the emergency services control room) and wait until they tell you the power is off.
It's human nature to want to "pile in and help", but time and time again we've heard of people getting hurt or killed trying (often unsuccessfully) to help someone. Yes, we all have different view on how much risk to take - but in cases like this, there is a very very clear danger of death to would be helpers.
People don't even need to touch the vehicle either - particularly if the tyres have gone or there is anything else conductive touching the ground. There may well be significant voltage gradients in the ground. On that point - keep animals very well away !
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^^ What he said
But bear in mind that HV lines are not safe to approach until they have been proven dead and connected to earth in view of the point of work/damage
A lot of the remote switching equipment we use does not have a sufficiently wide enough opening to be classed as a point of isolation
But bear in mind that HV lines are not safe to approach until they have been proven dead and connected to earth in view of the point of work/damage
A lot of the remote switching equipment we use does not have a sufficiently wide enough opening to be classed as a point of isolation
That's obviously the 'official' answer, but it's not necessarily a simple one. On the occasion in question, I was with the emergency services, who were in contact with their control rooms, but the interaction with the DNO was clearly far from straightforward (in the pre-GPS days, even defining the location, which was rural, was far from simple), and certainly not speedy. It seemed very likely that the victim (whom we could see was deteriorating rapidly) was not going to survive for long enough to "wait for the DNO to confirm that the power was off".
I don't know what would happen today. Maybe we are now in an era when emergency service personnel would feel constrained (by threat of being sacked) to work to the 'official answer' and just let the victim die. Back then (35 or so years ago), in much the manner already suggested by others in this thread, the Fire Service used their appliance to push the vehicle clear of the cables (and then rapidly reverse their way out of danger themselves!). I never discovered whether the cables had actually remained live - I rather suspect not, since there were no 'flashes and bangs' when the fire appliance stirred everything up!
Kind Regards, John
I'm afraid that doesn't seem to work with my wife's car. Almost every time I get out I get a shock (of course it could be me discharging to the car body).
I've got into the habit of not touching the metal bodywork and shutting the door by pushing against the window.
You have got to stop borrowing your wife's nylon undies.
No, it's her tights actually. But how did you know?
I believe, even in this day and age, professional emergency service personnel would do all they could to try and prevent the death of another in such crircumstances.
However, I doubt if anyone other than 'splash and trash' has been properly trained to deal with it effectively.
However, I doubt if anyone other than 'splash and trash' has been properly trained to deal with it effectively.
I also believe that (or would like to believe that), despite whatever 'rules' might say. Of course, in such situations there is always a fine line between 'bravery/heroicism' and foolishness - sometimes the risk to oneself or other third parties is so great that, unpleasant and contrary to one's instincts though it may be, the only rational course is to accept that there is no sensible/acceptable way of trying to save the victim.
In the historic case I described, I imagine that the driver of the fire appliance knew that he would probably be safe so long as he remained within the vehicle until he had removed it a good distance from the cables, so probably did not perceive himself as taking an appreciable risk.
Kind Regards, John
One first aid organisation had ( has ) a regulation that if overhead power lines were involved then there must be a 20 metre cordon and no one to approach the casualty until the emergency services took charge of the incident.
This extended to a lad who had fallen from about 10 feet up an electricity pylon. Needless to say the rule was ignored but strictly speaking the lad should have been left with his injuries untreated.
Unfortunately to protect the organisation the rules have to be set to ensure no one gets hurt while on duty with the organisation. Common sense and the fact that some have professional knowledge about the dangers cannot be allowed in the rules.
This extended to a lad who had fallen from about 10 feet up an electricity pylon. Needless to say the rule was ignored but strictly speaking the lad should have been left with his injuries untreated.
Unfortunately to protect the organisation the rules have to be set to ensure no one gets hurt while on duty with the organisation. Common sense and the fact that some have professional knowledge about the dangers cannot be allowed in the rules.
One can understand an organisation, particularly one largely 'staffed' by volunteers, to have such a rule - but, when it comes to the crunch, we are talking about human beings, who will make their own decisions which, if they feel it appropriate, might be 'despite the rules'. However, I was talking of a situation when emergency services were already very much 'in charge', and the question was what they should do. I have to say that my dusty recollections are not of much debate or delay - the Fire Service (or, at least, one employee thereof) just 'got on and did' what I described.
Kind Regards, John
Agree Bernard but professional emergency service personnel will always weigh up the situation and act accordingly. Whatever 'rules' (these are normally SOPs or guidance) say, one of the primary objects of all 3 main emergency services is the preservation of life so, on occasion, one has to 'ignore' them for the greater good.
As an example, emergency service personnel are taught not to go on to the railtrack (or LU track) until it has been confirmed the power is off. However, given most people know which is the live rail, I don't think anyone would hesitate to jump onto the track to save someone else and I would wager that no 'management' would impose any sanction on any individual for doing so.
It all comes down to that 'split second' judgement call.
As an example, emergency service personnel are taught not to go on to the railtrack (or LU track) until it has been confirmed the power is off. However, given most people know which is the live rail, I don't think anyone would hesitate to jump onto the track to save someone else and I would wager that no 'management' would impose any sanction on any individual for doing so.
It all comes down to that 'split second' judgement call.
I think we can all come up with "but the rules don't fit ..." situations.
But consider this : if you are dead or seriously hurt then you cannot help the original victim; and you've just added another victim to the incident for others to deal with (ie made things worse).
If I came across a situation as described then I'd probably want to help. What I'd do would have so many variables it's hard to say - but if for example I happened to be in the Land Rover, and it was dry, then I might be tempted to reverse up to it with the back door open, drop a (dry) tow rope onto it from inside the LR, and pull it free. If it's raining then I'd think a bit more before doing that but might still do it.
But consider this : if you are dead or seriously hurt then you cannot help the original victim; and you've just added another victim to the incident for others to deal with (ie made things worse).
If I came across a situation as described then I'd probably want to help. What I'd do would have so many variables it's hard to say - but if for example I happened to be in the Land Rover, and it was dry, then I might be tempted to reverse up to it with the back door open, drop a (dry) tow rope onto it from inside the LR, and pull it free. If it's raining then I'd think a bit more before doing that but might still do it.
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