English votes on English issues? .

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How the hell is that gonna work :rolleyes: wouldn't it be simpler for the English to say to the rest of the UK it is time to make your mind up, do you want to be part of one unitary state were every one is treated the same regardless of race or religion or do you want full independence, this halfway house devolution crap is only causing resentment and destabilization as a lot of English people believe that the Jocks and others are getting a better deal than people in England.
This devolution nonsense seems to a case of one group having their cake and eating it, they have all the trappings of independence but it is financed by other peoples money, yet the more devolution they get the more they want.
Why doesn't the government say either you are part of one nation where every region is treated equally or you can go independent and that devolution isn't an option any longer.
 
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JBR

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I completely agree.
And, of course, we wouldn't need nearly so many members of various parliaments:

Westminster
Edinburgh
Cardiff
Belfast

and not forgetting

Brussels! :rolleyes:
 
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I completely agree.
And, of course, we wouldn't need nearly so many members of various parliaments:

Westminster
Edinburgh
Cardiff
Belfast

and not forgetting

Brussels! :rolleyes:
The problem with devolution is that it only encourages demands for more devolution, it is a form of appeasement which is now in danger of causing the disaster it was meant to defend against , that is the breakup of the UK.
Nationalism of any kind whether Welsh, Scottish or English will only cause more problems, Nationalism destroyed Ireland, Germany , Italy , Spain ect. it only leads to tears in the end.
 
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And now City's want more power devolved too another layer of complication and expense! Lets just go back to the dark ages with Barons and local Kings ruling little bits, at least that will keep the Cornish happy! ;) ;)
 
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And now City's want more power devolved too another layer of complication and expense! Lets just go back to the dark ages with Barons and local Kings ruling little bits, at least that will keep the Cornish happy! ;) ;)

That's true, unfortunately.

Up here in Manchester, we're going to be the centre of the 'northern power house' - which is patronising nonsense.

All it will mean is another (regional) layer of government. Westmisnster will give us several billion £s; this will be splashed out on hiring more non-productive public-sector workers; public services will be just as bad; and when people start complaining again, the (tory) government at Westminster will turn round and say 'nothing to do with us - you wanted independence - sort yourselves out'.

The big issue for us all at present is the constant pressure to break up the Union. In today's hostile world, nations should be bigger, not smaller.
The UK is better than the sum of it's individual parts.
 
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Afraid it's a misconception that other parts of the UK are paying for Scotland - (born & resident in England by the way, in case anyone thought I was some sort of Mel Gibson type Braveheart freedom fighter). Scotland's actually sending more to the UK treasury than it's getting back. (Puts 10.5% of the UK's money in, gets 9.6% of UK's money out). It's just that it spends on things we get as headline stuff like free prescriptions, free education, etc. The way our politicians spin it it leads us to thinking they shouldn't get it, but I think it's different, that that's a... about face and those are things are them deciding for themselves what they want to spend on and they're things I'd actually like us to get as well, instead of spending on some of the other things. Like being in every U.S. war that pops up.
Agree about the full separation thing - think we should offer either full independence or for those that stay together get rid of the Lords and turn that into the 4 equal parts (or 3 or 2, whatever the different countries decide) 'UK govt' and let each country have it's own parliament, we'd turn Westminster into the English one. Getting rid of the Lords would be a cost saving in itself.
 

JBR

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Nationalism of any kind whether Welsh, Scottish or English will only cause more problems, Nationalism destroyed Ireland, Germany , Italy , Spain ect. it only leads to tears in the end.

I'm afraid I don't understand that. Ireland gained its independence from the UK in, I think, 1922, but from whom did Germany, Italy and Spain gain their independence?
In fact, if I remember my history correctly, both Germany and Italy became countries due to the union of a previous collection of smaller principalities, duchies, etc in the 19th century.
 
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JBR

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Agree about the full separation thing - think we should offer either full independence or for those that stay together get rid of the Lords and turn that into the 4 equal parts (or 3 or 2, whatever the different countries decide) 'UK govt' and let each country have it's own parliament, we'd turn Westminster into the English one. Getting rid of the Lords would be a cost saving in itself.

I certainly agree with getting rid of the Lords. I have mentioned before that, accepting we need a separate moderating house in addition to the Commons, a better way would be to have elected representatives using a PR system.

I don't agree, however, with what we have now: a nation (the UK) in which its component countries each have their own parliament (although England doesn't, of course). How many layers of administration do we have to have, bearing in mind that each one is a drain on our finances?
 
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Agree about the full separation thing - think we should offer either full independence or for those that stay together get rid of the Lords and turn that into the 4 equal parts (or 3 or 2, whatever the different countries decide) 'UK govt' and let each country have it's own parliament, we'd turn Westminster into the English one. Getting rid of the Lords would be a cost saving in itself.

I certainly agree with getting rid of the Lords. I have mentioned before that, accepting we need a separate moderating house in addition to the Commons, a better way would be to have elected representatives using a PR system.

I don't agree, however, with what we have now: a nation (the UK) in which its component countries each have their own parliament (although England doesn't, of course). How many layers of administration do we have to have, bearing in mind that each one is a drain on our finances?
Agree about the English parliament - daft to have 'semi-parliaments' in the other countries but not in England. It means that the Westminster one can hardly decide anything without it affecting W/NI/Scotland so they need to have representation in it (D Cameron's 'English votes for English issues' is surely a smoke screen, as almost everything affects the other countries in some way) and if there was an English parliament the,n as part of setting it up, there'd need to be decisions on what it (and therefore the other parliaments) could decide on so all the countries could be insulated from decisions made by any one. More layers of government....but not necessarily more expensive since there'd be constitutional separation of who-does-what therefore no duplication.
 

JBR

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More layers of government....but not necessarily more expensive since there'd be constitutional separation of who-does-what therefore no duplication.

More MPs to pay, unless you reduce the number of seats in the Commons to compensate!
 
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Scotland's actually sending more to the UK treasury than it's getting back. (Puts 10.5% of the UK's money in, gets 9.6% of UK's money out).

Fun with statistics.

Those figures are from before the oil price crash. Secondly, Scotland's small population against its (previously) large oil revenue meant it paid more tax per head, without the oil money it is less per head.

Scottish spending is £1300 per head more than in England.

I have no problem with Scotland getting more money, whilst the generate Oil money, only seems fair. But they can't expect to keep getting extra when oil money disappears.
 
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With the wonderful thing called hindsight, I am now wondering if it would have been better for the Scots to have said YES! to independence. As an independent country they would not be sending MPs to Westminster (to prop up a minority Lie-bore government), would they?
 
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