Equipotential bonding and Elecsa certificate

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Another thought... how do I know the latest sparky is signed up with Elecsa or similar? How do I know he's not buying blank certificates online and issuing these so they look legitimate?
That is one reason why it is up to the buyer to commission and pay for surveys including electrical rather than trust one provided by the vendor.
 
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There have been court cases for poor EICR however the electrician admitted he had done wrong, to prove an inspector has got it wrong if they don't admit it, is near impossible, it is a personal opinion of the inspector, and he has a range of codes, the three mains ones are
Code C1 ‘Danger present’. Risk of injury.
Immediate remedial action required.
Code C2 ‘Potentially dangerous’.
Urgent remedial action required
Code C3 ‘Improvement recommended.
There are others the best practice guide does just that but a guide not a fixed pass/fail, and all electrics are ‘Potentially dangerous’ so code C1 reasonably cut and dried, but C2 very much down to the inspector.

In the main an inspector should have passed his City & Guilds 2391 exam, but nothing says he must pass it, there is a place on the report to show the meters have been calibrated and their serial numbers, but not for the inspector, the main idea is every 10 years to show some degrading and on change of occupant to highlight any fiddling by previous occupant, for the latter clearly after previous occupant has left, so done by buyer not seller, so he picks up when seller takes light fitting away etc.

We have meters and it is rather easy to measure the earth loop impedance to any metalwork, we should test as well as look for the connection, in the main to ensure rust or paint is not causing the earth not to be connected, but the forms it seems only ask for visual
1653036918358.png
to my mind this is not good enough, we have a loop impedance meter, so easy to actually measure.
 
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Why wouldn't we? After all, we had a certificate showing all was ok, or so we thought.
Exactly.
Another thought... how do I know the latest sparky is signed up with Elecsa or similar? How do I know he's not buying blank certificates online and issuing these so they look legitimate?
Self-certify actually means self-notify - to the Local Authority - anyone may complete electrical certificates.

There is no need to join a scheme to carry out EICRs (although obviously should not use scheme heading if not a member); anyone may (is allowed to) carry out EICRs.
However, the schemes do have EICR options for which they can charge more money.

Also scheme membership is no guarantee of quality.
 
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Incorrect. It must be green/yellow throughout its length.
Where does that come from, since I don't think you'll find it in BS7671. All it says specifically about identification of protective conductors by colour is that single-core cables which are G/Y throughout their length cannot be used as anything but protective conductors (i.e. cannot be over-sleeved at ends for use as live conductors).

I am aware of nothing in BS7671 which says a conductor which is used as a protective conductor has to be G'Y throughout it's length - it would seem that it could be any colour, provided that it was identified (e.g. with G/Y over-sleeving) at it's terminations (per 514.3.2 - which only says that identification throughout the length is "preferable").

Am I missing something>
 
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I am aware of nothing in BS7671 which says a conductor which is used as a protective conductor has to be G'Y throughout it's length
There is also the fact that something other than a wire may be used as a bonding conductor; this does not have to be green and yellow.
 
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Where does that come from, since I don't think you'll find it in BS7671. All it says specifically about identification of protective conductors by colour is that single-core cables which are G/Y throughout their length cannot be used as anything but protective conductors (i.e. cannot be over-sleeved at ends for use as live conductors).

I am aware of nothing in BS7671 which says a conductor which is used as a protective conductor has to be G'Y throughout it's length - it would seem that it could be any colour, provided that it was identified (e.g. with G/Y over-sleeving) at it's terminations (per 514.3.2 - which only says that identification throughout the length is "preferable").

Am I missing something>
This matches my understanding but I only have 2008 copy of regs and didn't know is it has been changed in recent editions.
In commercial situations bare copper bar is not uncommom and sometimes in blocks of flats.
 
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This matches my understanding but I only have 2008 copy of regs and didn't know is it has been changed in recent editions.
In commercial situations bare copper bar is not uncommom and sometimes in blocks of flats.
It hasn't changed in Amd2 of BS76671:2018. I'm still waiting to hear where Risteard got his idea from - perhaps not the UK?

Kind Regards, John
 
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It hasn't changed in Amd2 of BS76671:2018. I'm still waiting to hear where Risteard got his idea from - perhaps not the UK?

Kind Regards, John
I know there was a lot of confusion about using the earth wire in a multicore for other purposes and I seem to recall some interpreting it as Risteard has stated, I suspect it may be a hangover from that.
 
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I know there was a lot of confusion about using the earth wire in a multicore for other purposes and I seem to recall some interpreting it as Risteard has stated, I suspect it may be a hangover from that.
There have, indeed, been quite a lot of misunderstandings, hence discussions, about this - but I can but presume that they have been due to people not bothering to (or not being able to :) ) read, since the regs are really very simple and very clear about this ...

For a multi-core cable, a core with any colour insulation ("throughout its length") can be used for any purpose, provided only that its use is identified (usually by coloured over-sleeving) at the terminations. The regs say that to have the identification colour 'throughout the length of the core' is 'preferable' but, nevertheless, that identification only at the terminations is acceptable. Although a good few people are uncomfortable about it, this does include oversleeving a G/Y-insulated core (in a multi-core cable) at its terminations for use as a live conductor.

For single-core cables, the situation is generally the same as for multi-core cables, but with one specific exception - that a G/Y-insulated (throughout its length) conductor in a single-core cable can only be used as a 'protective conductor. Otherwise, as above, any colour core can be used for any purpose, provided it is properly identified at just the terminations.

... and that's more-or-less "it". Interestingly, although EFLI wrote:
There is also the fact that something other than a wire may be used as a bonding conductor; this does not have to be green and yellow.
... and you wrote:
In commercial situations bare copper bar is not uncommom and sometimes in blocks of flats.
the regs actually include;
514.4.6 Bare conductors ... A bare conductor shall be identified, where necessary, by the application of tape, sleeve or disc of the appropriate
colour prescribed in Table 51 or by painting with such a colour.
... and also ....
514.4.2 Protective conductor .................. A bare conductor or busbar used as a protective conductor shall be identified, where necessary, by equal green-and-yellow stripes, each not less than 15 mm and not more than 100 mm wide, close together, either throughout the length of the conductor or in each compartment and unit and at each accessible position
Both of those do include "where necessary", and I presume that it is generally accepted that it is 'not necessary' for, say, the bare COPC of T+E cable (although G/Y sleeving is very commonly used at terminations, although not necessarily 'for identification'), but, as for the second, although my experience is very limited, I can't say I've seen (m)any lumps of metal with G/Y stripes :)

Kind Regards, John
 
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Sorry been away. Update: there's been a twist in the saga. The buyers surveyor is not bothered by the earth wire not being visible and he says most properties in this estate would fail. The buyer has been informed and is no longer concerned about doing the work in the immediate future and it won't be my problem then. Solicitor still wants a record of this latest inspection. So, do I now get a 'failed' certificate from my sparky with details of why it's failed, and will it still cost me £160?
 
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NO. As I have said it is conventionally up to the buyer to get any survey, including electrical, and PAY for them. His solicitor is "trying it on".
 
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So, do I now get a 'failed' certificate from my sparky with details of why it's failed, and will it still cost me £160?
If the installation has already been inspected and tested by them, then yes, you do have to pay for it. What the outcome is doesn't change that - it's a report on the condition of the installation.

If repairs are required, those would be carried out and paid for separately. If you or whoever else doesn't want any repairs done, then they are not done or paid for.
 

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