exam results

[ajohn]

What evidence do you have that kids work harder?

One kid mentioned staying at school until 6pm to study. I found that particularly interesting.He (?) found it easier than working at home. If many can do that in some ways it's more like university - for some that go anyway. The whole thing sounds like an environment factor to me. Aspirations are encouraged some how. That can just be what others are doing. Any selectivity is bound to improve results.

Personally I have always thought that teachers vary too. I'm reminded of my son's physics teacher. Following a parents evening I asked my son about him. He said no one understands what he is on about. I asked as the teacher could not understand why my son was brilliant in one area and not in another. The answer was 10min or so from me.

 

[Ihavenojob]

One kid mentioned staying at school until 6pm to study.

Maybe he/she didn't know many people of have many friends? All work and no play etc etc etc.

 

[Justin Passing]

Justin, I have never heard of a state sixth form requiring As at GCSE as a minimum for entry. Have you? Winstanley College has way lower minima.

You missed the point. Brampton is VERY oversubscribed. That obviously pushed the requirements up simply because it, like all the others, admits depending on grades. It, like the others, is limited by size. If places like Winstanley and Brighton raised their entrance requirements, then they wouldn't fill the classrooms.
Iirc Brampton is bigger than both, not smaller - which makes it more remarkable.
Winstanley , though it's quite good, obviously isn't as good at attracting applicants as Brampton in spite of its lower requirements.

I know of a school locally which admits anyone over a certain number of projected points, but that would overload them so then judge by proximity. The ones we're talking about do not do that.

 

[charliegolf]

Point made and accepted.

But you're missing my point, being, that Brampton is stripping all (most) of the top talent from the area. So what? Well, in doing that, you:

a) Make life much easier for your teachers to perform. Why? Zero behaviour issues; driven learners and (in a growing school) ****loads of dosh for resources.
b) You show yourself as willing to deny a place in the sixth form to a child who has been with you for 5 years who has10 C grades at GCSE, and who could easily pass a levels. That's despicable. (Did your grammar do that?)
c) You make it difficult for other sixth forms in the area to be successful, and even viable in some cases.

I'll leave it there.

CG

 

[Justin Passing]

Sorry, I should have said 'Not if everyone takes the same exam each year, not ones from different exam boards', although I thought that would be obvious!

It's not obvious because it's rubbish!
If you had a clue about examinations you'd know that different boards' syllabuses have different content

Even if they did, you seem to be expecting employers as well as colleges to look up the exam content for a given year, so they can make a judgment about the marking compared with other years.

That's ridiculous.
Colleges have to rely on the education authorities to produce a year-to-year-valid grading system

What evidence do you have that kids work harder?

And exams have simply changed. For example it's a lot easier/quicker to use a calculator than logarithm tables so there is indeed a lot more in, but more quality?

Then of course there is the internet and computer aided tools...

If you really think standards have gone up then you obviously haven't a clue about the basic mental arithmetic and spelling skills of your average student!

I've looked at exam papers in subjects which I know. And watched how much work kids do.

Yes exams have changed but if you have to cite calculators and log tables you're obviously struggling, that's ancient history.
Mental arithmetic isn't measured in an exam. "Showing your working" has always been the norm.
The internet isn't used in an exam.
Spelling features somewhat in relevant subjects, much as it always did.

In 4 stem subjects, difficulty dropped, when they decided maths had to come out, then went up. The A levels are harder now than they were when I did mine. Check 15-20 years ago, they were much easier.

A specific example - I'm sure you're familiar with the equations :
s = ut + 1/2(at^2), v^2 = u^2 + 2 as, v = u + at.

Those used to be in A level.
GCSEs were easier than O levels.
These equations weren't in O levels, but
Now they're in GCSEs.

Phys Chem Bio used to be separate only, now they've been combined into a double because some kids couldn't hack them separately. The breadth though, even in the combined, is large.
My interest has been piqued for a while because I happen to know some teachers who rant on about it. I know one fewer now - Nige just died of covid.

 

[ajohn]

There was a change in how results were graded a while ago. I'd guess sometime in the range of 1970 to 1980. I know this from talking to people at work who were younger than me. It related to assuming a certain % of people could be expected to pass. Also allocation of top grades moved more towards a % mark rather than how some one may choose to answer a question etc. I suspect they are still playing with this area and higher grades may tighten up more.

One of the disturbing things I found about education was a friend who's father paid for him to be crammed. This included what O and A levels questions were likely to crop up when the time came to take them. They proved to be rather useful. The bloke that did it was a very capable and experienced teacher.

 

[Justin Passing]

There was a change in how results were graded a while ago. I'd guess sometime in the range of 1970 to 1980. I know this from talking to people at work who were younger than me. It related to assuming a certain % of people could be expected to pass. Also allocation of top grades moved more towards a % mark rather than how some one may choose to answer a question etc. I suspect they are still playing with this area and higher grades may tighten up more.

One of the disturbing things I found about education was a friend who's father paid for him to be crammed. This included what O and A levels questions were likely to crop up when the time came to take them. They proved to be rather useful. The bloke that did it was a very capable and experienced teacher.

Just looked up O levels - there were lots of tweaks by the look of it.
The way they answer questions was altered when the 9-1 grades came in too. Will always be flawed in some way I suppose..

There are always shenanigans too. Papers have to physically arrive before the day of the exam, so.....

 

[ajohn]

I pretty sure it was the same with A levels in the same period. Also that people who took them in this period thought the earlier method was unfair. this due to the idea that only a certain % can pass each year. Seen as a method of getting around producing exactly the same standard of papers each year. It does make a certain amount of sense. What the changes actually did to results - I have no idea.

The cramming really did bug me because I do know that the richer end of society will be inclined to go in that direction if they feel the need.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

One of the disturbing things I found about education was a friend who's father paid for him to be crammed. This included what O and A levels questions were likely to crop up when the time came to take them. They proved to be rather useful. The bloke that did it was a very capable and experienced teteacher

A lot of education, school age and adult, appears to be like that now, i.e. simply aimed at the questions that will crop up in the exam.

 

[Justin Passing]

Point made and accepted.

But you're missing my point, being, that Brampton is stripping all (most) of the top talent from the area. So what? Well, in doing that, you:

a) Make life much easier for your teachers to perform. Why? Zero behaviour issues; driven learners and (in a growing school) ****loads of dosh for resources.
b) You show yourself as willing to deny a place in the sixth form to a child who has been with you for 5 years who has10 C grades at GCSE, and who could easily pass a levels. That's despicable. (Did your grammar do that?)
c) You make it difficult for other sixth forms in the area to be successful, and even viable in some cases.

I'll leave it there.

CG

Not sure how you figure I'm missing the point which I explained....
I get the message - you don't like it! And I can see why. It appears to have got worse, looking around for odd comments of old etc. in that they used to state a radius for catchment but I don't see that now. One kid was saying he was going to travel 8 miles each way to get there. That does put an extreme complexion on things.
I was wrong above about the catchment area above, (deleted now) that was for the whole school.
nb The LA of Excellence is local, and doing well too.

The lower Brampton school is pretty high scoring, v impressive for the area. I don't know if thickos with only 12 grade 8 GCSEs are kicked out.
The Grammar I went to was selective from the 11+, so that question didn't arise. (I just checked, only about 50% of A levels there are A*/A now, disgraceful, and it's private. ).

A lot of education, school age and adult, appears to be like that now, i.e. simply aimed at the questions that will crop up in the exam.

Last couple of years the boards have directed the teachers on subject areas, due to covid, if that's what you're thinking. I remember a private school cheating by opening papers, in the news. Otherwise not.
I remember about that school but to give more details would be racist...

 

[gant]

Thickos come under observation but we're not given a chance to see whether you are racist in your estimation.

 

[Justin Passing]

Thickos come under observation but we're not given a chance to see whether you are racist in your estimation.

What are you on about now? "Thickos" was obviously tongue in cheek sarcasm. Did you get 12 grade 8 GCSEs?

 

[gant]

Pulling your pisxer. Seen as your asking cse in domestic science.

 

[ellal]

It's not obvious because it's rubbish!
If you had a clue about examinations you'd know that different boards' syllabuses have different content

PMSL...

So what was that about a 'meaningful grade', when students are examined in different ways on different 'content' in the same subject?


The rest of your post dissolves into mind boggling waffle/further ignorance...

This is a good one. You forgot to add grammar to that claim of 'not featuring'

Spelling doesn't features somewhat in relevant subjects, much as it always did.

 

[Justin Passing]

PMSL...

So what was that about a 'meaningful grade', when students are examined in different ways on different 'content' in the same subject?


The rest of your post dissolves into mind boggling waffle/further ignorance...

You didn't know the different boards had different syllabuses?
Never heard of O & C being different from the JMB, Nuffield being very different? There are several others - AQA, OCR, Edexcel, Eduqas,...
Then the iGCEs.
It's been that way for decades.
My god you try to say how things should be, then make it clear you're completely ignorant of the subject.

When you can't understand something and your mind gets boggled, consider that those with better knowledge or brains are not boggled. It's just you.
People who matter, have no difficulty understanding the grading system, you don't need to worry about it.


You said you had "A keen interest in education and a lot of research". It failed you.