Extending a loft hatch - quick question

[robken]

Hello there,

I'm thinking of making my current loft hatch bigger, installing an Abru pre-made jobbie with wooden ladder (B&Q).

The existing hatch sits between two joists and in theory I should just be able to move the noggin's along a bit so the new hatch fits.

This is the view from underneath:

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• robken
• 1 Feb 2011
• 1

The red outline is very roughly the size of the new hatch (it will have to go right up against the wall).

This is the view from the loft:

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• robken
• 1 Feb 2011
• 1

Again the red outline is where I was thinking of moving the noggin's to. This is where my question is - there is a join between 2 joists at the point where I want to put a noggin - is this an OK thing to do? If not, does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do? You can see there is a huge long piece of wood running right down the middle of the loft - I'm not sure what it's job is as the joists aren't sitting on it, but under it.

Here's a couple of close ups to show you the detail:

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• robken
• 1 Feb 2011
• 1

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• robken
• 1 Feb 2011
• 1

There's not enough room to fit the new hatch if I re-use the existing noggin. Any ideas ?? Or am I doomed . . .

Many thanks for your time,

Rob

 

[RedHerring2]

There are joints (metal plates)in the ceiling joists. Are these joints sitting atop the wall? assuming that the wall is fully supporting these joists, no problem.

I would have suggested the the upper timber is a ceiling binder, but it wouldn't be placed in that position if it was. it would be placed across the centre of the ceiling joists.

The position of the loft hatch, and the size (in your case, the extension in the direction you're suggesting) shouldn't make any difference to the structural integrity of the ceiling/roof.

But I am only a DIYer, so maybe worth waiting for a more experienced view.

Edit: On closer inspection, it looks like the joints are not atop the wall and that 'ceiling binder' is across the joists over a void.
But I still think you'll have no problem extending the loft hatch in the direction that you're suggesting.

 

[robken]

The"celing binder" runs the full length of the loft space, roughly central, and rougly over the joints of all the joists.

As you say, there is no wall underneath the joints.

So I'll be OK to fit a new noggin right on the joint, in-between the metal plates ??

(don't panic, not going to do it straight away !!??!!)

 

[RedHerring2]

The noggin takes very little load, just the plasterboard and perhaps the loft hatch, so the only problem you'll have fixing the noggin on the join is the fixings, you'll inevitably strike the joint plate with screws or nails.
There is a small chance of weakening the timber under the joint plate, bearing in mind the fixing of the joint plate and the ceiling binder, but as it's only one joist it shouldn't have any great detrimental effect.

Also take care not to 'displace' the joint plate, perhaps putting clamps on it to prevent it springing off the timber.

I take it that ceiling binder isn't going to be in the way of the loft ladder 'cos the ladder will be fixed on the opposite 'end' of the hatch.

Edit: Just taken another closer look and it might be better to fix that one noggin to the ceiling binder, if it's possible. Some straight straps down the backside of the nogging faced fixed to the ceiling binder.
All that noggin does is support plasterboard and hatch liner.

 

[robken]

So (and sorry to be thick here) put the new noggin under the ceiling binder, then get some metal straps and screw them either side to both binder and noggin ?

Something like this ?

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• robken
• 1 Feb 2011
• 1

Or could I get some 8x2 and screw that directly to the binder, so it drops down where the noggin should go, but is actually screwed to the binder.

It's a relief to know that all the noggin does is support the plasterboard and hatch liner . . .

 

[RedHerring2]

I was thinking screw the metal straps to the noggin, then reverse the noggin and screw the metal straps to the ceiling binder. So the screws to the noggin are at the back of the noggin. i.e you can only see the screw into the ceiling binder. You've then still got a clean face on the noggin to fix the ceiling hatch to.
But either of your options would also work.

 

[robken]

Ah . . . I get it. Yours sounds a better idea as you get a clean face on the noggin.

I shall give it a go !!

Thanks so much for all your help,

Rob