Extending outdoor wiring

[JohnW2]

John, I feel your faith in your fellow man is admirable yet wholey misguided. I would never endeavor to estimate the boundaries of stupidity!

Fair enough; you obviously feel similarly to scousespark.

Total stupidity will always exist and, IMO, will be minimally influenced by anything written here, or anywhere else. In general, however, I do perhaps have a little more faith than you do in my fellow man (or, at least, their self-preservation instincts), in that I would say that the vast majority would not consider working on live electrical circuits, anywhere. As is often pointed out, many of them may not fully understand what is required for safe isolation (and, in particular, 'testing for dead') but most at least understand that there is a need to 'remove electricity from' circuits they are working on (even if they don't necessarily achieve that in a proper and foolproof manner)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ekmdgrf]

I'm attempting but struggling to put myself in the position of someone who knows little about electricity but is "willing to give it a go" but I think I can see how someone might interpret "DNOs routinely work on live cables" as "it's perfectly safe to work on live cables".

If you need more convincing, there's a news clip on a well-known video sharing website that shows someone leaning out of a window to connect a pair of jump leads to an overhead cable. There's also the many people who think it's a good idea to go to the local substation to teif some copper and finally, many will remember the incident on this here forum a while ago where someone live swapped a light switch because he "couldn't find the breaker".

 

[dhutch]

I am not a spark by profession, but for me the things we don't know is;
- How large is the supply/cable to the garage
- The distances evolved between house/garage/pond
- Is it underground or not.

My experience is that a lot of swa doesn't have the size on the outside, which given the OP's post, appears to to be the case here. But if we know the size of the breaker in the house CU for the garage that is a start. We could also go somewhat on the outside diameter, particularly if we could confirm its 3core swa.

If its 30m house to garden, and the ponds in the middle, breaking in and t'ing off might be a good plan, if its actually only like 6-8m from the garage to the near side of the pond I would go from the garage almost certainly.


Daniel

 

[ekmdgrf]

- The distances evolved between house/garage/pond

Some might say that the distances had an intelligent designer, rather than evolving.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Some might say that the distances had an intelligent designer, rather than evolving.

CLICK

 

[JohnW2]

- How large is the supply/cable to the garage ... My experience is that a lot of swa doesn't have the size on the outside, which given the OP's post, appears to to be the case here.

The OP has told us that teh SWA is 4mm² (I don't know how he knows) and that it is fed from a B32.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

A radical suggestion would be to let the electrician decide what is needed.
I mean the one who is coming to do the installation for you.

 

[JohnW2]

A radical suggestion would be to let the electrician decide what is needed. I mean the one who is coming to do the installation for you.

Indeed. Going back to 'faith in my fellow man', I can but assume that at least some of those who (like the OP in this thread) say that they feel the need to gain information and knowledge before talking to their electrician are actually telling the truth. If that's the case, then the fact that they feel that need is a bit of an indictment of (at least some parts of) the electrical trade.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dhutch]

The OP has told us that teh SWA is 4mm² (I don't know how he knows) and that it is fed from a B32.

Kind Regards, John

Your right, sorry, missed that.

In which case, the distances are the main thing missing to be able to judge it. Obviously the length of run from the house to the garage starts from the house CU, but equally, if the pond is not to far from the nearest part of the house, another option is a Spur from the nearest ring.

Assuming we are not recreating the Niagara falls I expect the pump and filter (presumably a uv light inside it) draw very little between them.


Daniel

 

[scousespark]

A radical suggestion would be to let the electrician decide what is needed. I mean the one who is coming to do the installation for you.

Indeed. Going back to 'faith in my fellow man', I can but assume that at least some of those who (like the OP in this thread) say that they feel the need to gain information and knowledge before talking to their electrician are actually telling the truth. If that's the case, then the fact that they feel that need is a bit of an indictment of (at least some parts of) the electrical trade.

Kind Regards, John

In the OP, 4candles said he wanted advice as to how to get the feed in place and he'd get an electrician to connect it up. Rather than get advice in here, he'd be better getting an electrician to do the job.

 

[Aragorn84]

Exactly, however if you dont trust the/any tradesman (i certainly dont) you will find it beneficial to find out what can and cant be done before getting the guy out to quote.

If you know (roughly) how a job should be done, and some cowbow comes out and suggests some other ****ty method, you can then have some idea that the suggested method might not be correct, and either question it, or employ someone else.

People on here like to jump down the throat of anyone asking questions when they add that they're going to get a spark in to fix it, always replying with the same snarky comments about getting the spark to do the job. Yet we've ALL seen the utter ****e work that some so called sparks turn out. Surely we should be helping these people weed out the **** sparks by ensuring our advice can be used to allow the person to identify crappy work/design.


As an example, in a completely unrelated field, my mother in law last year had a snapped spring on her fiesta. It snapped in such a way that it went thru the tyre, and stranded her at the side of the road. I do all of my own mechanicing and have a very comprehensive workshop, however she was in a rush/panic so instead of speaking to me she got some recovery service to take the car to a garage to effect repairs. 6 months later exactly the same thing happened, on the other side...

I asked why she hadnt replaced both springs the first time round, given its fairly well understood that certain components like suspension and brake parts should be changed in pairs, and if one spring had worn out and snapped it was very likely that the other spring, having done the same mileage and endured the same stresses and strains, would also be nearing point of failure. She said that she didnt know and had simply asked the garage to repair the car. Had she asked me (or a forum member) what to expect from a proper repair, she'd have discovered that she should have been getting both springs changed, and she wouldnt have been out another tyre and had the whole inconvenience again. Sure, the job might have cost a bit more the first time, but doing things properly inevitably does cost more.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Whilst what you say sounds reasonable I would say that your last sentence would be most customers' deciding factor.

In view of the amount of disagreement from those on this site I do wonder if the OP is any the wiser.
Being informed of several different methods which are possible is not going to have any effect on what the electrician (assuming there is one - no disrespect to the OP but sometimes we know there isn't) may prefer to do.
As long as the work is done to a satisfactory standard the method employed does not really matter.
I, myself, would be loathe to introduce an underground joint if at all avoidable.


As for your Mother in law's car, presumably you could have replaced the second spring for merely the cost of the spring itself so, perhaps, the best of both worlds.
Perhaps contacting Ford for what seems an inherent fault may be desirable even if, in the end, fruitless.

 

[JohnW2]

In the OP, 4candles said he wanted advice as to how to get the feed in place and he'd get an electrician to connect it up. Rather than get advice in here, he'd be better getting an electrician to do the job.

We have clearly interpreted the OP differently ...

Will get a electrician to connect it up, but I'd like to know what I want before getting one in - just to sound a bit more knowledgeable.

Your interpretation may be correct, but I took that to mean simply that (as many OPs say) he wanted to know "what he wanted" before speaking to the electrician (so that he could 'sound a bit more knowledgeable') - not that he intended to 'get the feed in place' before involving the electrician. Only the OP can referee!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Exactly, however if you dont trust the/any tradesman (i certainly dont) you will find it beneficial to find out what can and cant be done before getting the guy out to quote. ... If you know (roughly) how a job should be done, and some cowbow comes out and suggests some other s method, you can then have some idea that the suggested method might not be correct, and either question it, or employ someone else.

Very much so. Sad though it is that it's necessary, that has been my philosophy in all walks of life (all types of 'professionals', as well as tradesmen). Only if it were absolutely unavoidable would I ever turn to a professional or tradesman for advice or work without first having, or having gained, some knowledge of the field in question, and having, where necessary, researched the specific issues relevant to my discussions with the person concerned.

In an ideal world, there could be a lot more implicit trust in others, but I don't feel that I live in such a world.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dhutch]

.... however she was in a rush/panic so instead of speaking to me she got some recovery service to take the car to a garage to effect repairs. 6 months later exactly the same thing happened, on the other side...

I asked why she hadnt replaced both springs the first time round, given its fairly well understood that certain components like suspension and brake parts should be changed in pairs, and if one spring had worn out and snapped it was very likely that the other spring, having done the same mileage and endured the same stresses and strains, would also be nearing point of failure. She said that she didnt know and had simply asked the garage to repair the car. Had she asked me (or a forum member) what to expect from a proper repair, she'd have discovered that she should have been getting both springs changed, and she wouldnt have been out another tyre and had the whole inconvenience again. Sure, the job might have cost a bit more the first time, but doing things properly inevitably does cost more.

At which point, while I would not expect a garage to replace both sides without asking, if iI where running a garage i would hope the person on the phone would have said 'the other one looked to be of the same age, do you want that swapping too' or the like.

But sadly even that you have to approach with caution or people think your after unnecessary work!