Feeling electricity in water

As a matter of interest, has anyone here ever been involved with one of these "tingles from water" etc. situations in which a cause was found and rectified?
I had a similar issue a while ago. The householder had (himself) installed some of that carbon film UFH stuff without the required earthed metal shield/grid on top. Was induced voltage through the tiles, his wet body and to the water which was at earth(ish) potential.
Fair enough. My fingers didn't actually type exactly the question which I intended to ask! Given that such phenomena are usually going to be due to ('harmless') induced voltages, as in your example, I should have typed something like "... in which a cause (which directly presented a significant hazard to life/limb) was found and rectified".

I wasn't really thinking of cases such as you mention, since although the (almost fortuitously) revealed absence of an earthed shield/grid over the UFH could present a true hazard (to life and limb) in the future if another fault arose, the current situation was not really 'hazardous'.
I hope the OP has had an electrician in and is not now having to carry out CPR on his family.
Hopefully he will have - enough people have given him that advice, so there not much more we can do!

Kind Regards, John
 
I had a customer complaining that the water coming from his shower was live. Turned out the floor was live due to damp getting into a lighting joint box and the water was at a potential relative to earth.
 
I had a customer complaining that the water coming from his shower was live. Turned out the floor was live due to damp getting into a lighting joint box and the water was at a potential relative to earth.
Fair enough, but in a case like that, it presumably would not have only been the water which appeared 'live' - taps, pipes, radiators, any exposed-c-ps etc. would presumably all have appeared to be equally 'live'?

Kind Regards, John
 
The shower water was the only ecp in the room! Another electrician looked at it and pointed the finger at the shower but wasn't really sure why!
 
The shower water was the only ecp in the room! Another electrician looked at it and pointed the finger at the shower but wasn't really sure why!
The shower always seems to get the blame!! However, weren't the taps in contact with this 'live water'?

Kind Regards, John
 
http://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/after-some-advice-mild-tingle-from-shower-when-in-use.415783/
Well, yes - but that thread was an example of one of the reasons I asked my question. AFAIAA, in that previous thread, no explanation for the 'tingles' was ever found, nor was any evidence found that there was any significant 'hazard'. The thread ended with the OP intending to get his CU changed to an all-RCBO one, but I don't think any of us believe that that would have altered what he was apparently experiencing (albeit, IIRC, 'tingles' which were only experienced in the presence of damaged or broken skin).

Kind Regards, John
 
The shower water was the only ecp in the room! Another electrician looked at it and pointed the finger at the shower but wasn't really sure why!

Sometimes it can be confusing what is raised in potential to what and a wander lead comes in very handy.

I have been known that when faced with a TT system exhibiting strange behavior to stuck a screwdriver in the ground outside and run a lead to be able to measure what is actually going on!
 
Yes daughter in law was really worried and I went up to sort it out. Everything was RCD protected and my son had a full test set so sure the RCD was going to trip at 30 mA in 40 ms but whole house was being rewired and there was an array of extension leads.

Fault was a broken earth wire in an extension lead and correcting did not trip the RCD.

She was getting a shock when she touched the caravan to get in and out but I could not feel anything myself.

In hind sight I would say no real danger but I was not going to take the chance.

Sizewell 'B' was another reports of sparks coming from the tower crane hook this crane was at the time tallest in Europe. The whole structure was steel and power was 415 volt three phase to a auto transformer then 380 volt to crane. Reported sparks 1/2 inch long. We tested everything we could think of but no faults found but also we saw the sparks from the hook so no silly woman and panic attack there were clearly sparks from the hook but only when the crane was in line with the wind. We came to the conclusion it was static from the wind.

We read about Emma Shaw and clearly there are times when there is a very real danger and every time we have to investigate.

We we told in college the story about an electrician and a central heating boiler where he put a lose green wire onto a earth spade and it seems it was the normally closed contact of the on/off switch so with the boiler on no problem only when switched off was there a line wire connected to earth. Not sure if real or made up by lecturer but it would seem he tested with everything switched on so found no fault. Court said had he not been called to home because of a shock it would have been considered and an accident but since before the death he had been called to check as mild shock had been received then considered as manslaughter. This was pre-internet so no way to verify the story.

But in essence what he was saying everyone can make a mistake but once any one highlights the possibility there is a fault then it becomes negligent not simply a mistake.

So if some one from "londoniese" family is now electrocuted when he has declared he thinks there is a problem he would likely face manslaughter charges for not doing something to rectify the problem. But if a family member was electrocuted without some warning signs then he would not face any charges.

I clearly hope nothing goes wrong and it turns out to be something like with my daughter in law but now he has posted on here he has no option but to get an electrician there is no other option.

Daft as it may seem proving AOK is harder than finding a fault.

We got a plumber today and the earth underneath the bath was not connected anywhere , he now fixed the issue and there s no more electricity in the water. we had cowboys builders 2 years ago and they had cut of the ground earth.
 
I would not be happy with that apparent fix. It hasn't found the fault, merely reduced the effect.

It might be that there is still a high impedance live feed to the floor and by earthing the bath the voltage on the floor is being removed via the bath feet.

If that is the case then should the high impedance feed to the floor become lower impedance the earth via the bath feet may not be sufficient to keep the floor (where the people stand) below a non lethal potential.

EDIT

The high impedance live feed to the floor could be dampness around a junction box under the floor or a damaged cable. I recall a situation where a floor board nail in a bedroom had gone through a cable and was touching the Live conductor. It was only discovered years later when liquid was spilt on the floor and the conductive area increased and a person in bare feet touched a metal lamp that was properly earthed. Non fatal but a lesson learnt.
 
I would not be happy with that apparent fix. It hasn't found the fault, merely reduced the effect.
This could also be said with the fault I investigated getting a shock from a caravan.

But the current was so small it would not trip a RCD.

I know with the old wind up mega if you held the leads hard you got a very minor shock but held loose it really gives one a belt. Peoples resistance varies so what seems a really bad shock to one person may be only a tingle to another.

There is always some leakage with a non RCD protected property yes I would want to investigate further at least use an insulation tester but with RCD protection even if only 100 mA I would not be too worried.
 
I would not be happy with that apparent fix. It hasn't found the fault, merely reduced the effect.

It might be that there is still a high impedance live feed to the floor and by earthing the bath the voltage on the floor is being removed via the bath feet.

If that is the case then should the high impedance feed to the floor become lower impedance the earth via the bath feet may not be sufficient to keep the floor (where the people stand) below a non lethal potential.

EDIT

The high impedance live feed to the floor could be dampness around a junction box under the floor or a damaged cable. I recall a situation where a floor board nail in a bedroom had gone through a cable and was touching the Live conductor. It was only discovered years later when liquid was spilt on the floor and the conductive area increased and a person in bare feet touched a metal lamp that was properly earthed. Non fatal but a lesson learnt.

are you saying that even if the bath is not earthed we should never feel electricity? We are going to have a full assessment today and a brand new fuse box fitted.lets say its due to dampness underneath the bath what do you do? When people take shower in a bath there could always be water on the floor and escaping through small gaps on floor or around the bath?
 
I would not be happy with that apparent fix. It hasn't found the fault, merely reduced the effect.
Indeed, as everyone has said, even if the chance of a definite 'cause' of the OP's experiences being found is probably quite low, the OP needs to get the situation checked out by an electrician (not a plumber), if only for 'peace of mind'.

What has been done could obviously be significantly worse than you suggest. If, as in the cases RF and yourself have reported, the underlying problem were a 'live floor', then ('unnecessarily') earthing a metal bath (or anything else in the room) could considerably increase the potential hazard.

Kind Regards, John
 
are you saying that even if the bath is not earthed we should never feel electricity?
One should never "feel" electricity in a house. ( other than static electricity which is not mains electricity )

lets say its due to dampness underneath the bath what do you do?
dampness by itself does not create a risk of electric shock. It only presents a hazard when an exposed Live conductor comes into contact with the dampness, then the damp material can conduct current from the Live conductor into people touching the damp surface.

When people take shower in a bath there could always be water on the floor and escaping through small gaps on floor or around the bath?
Hence there should be no junction boxes under that floor and damaged cable replaced. Ceiling roses under bathrooms can be a weak point when water comes through the floor.
 
It is near impossible to do an electrical installation condition report which will highlight all faults.

The Emma Shaw Case was before 2008 when the regulations required cables buried in the wall or floor less than 50 mm deep unless using a special cable to be RCD protected. Had her house been built to today's standards then she would be still alive.

Once the consumer unit is upgraded then any faults will cause the RCD to trip. One can still get a shock but what is hoped is the fault will trip the RCD before you touch it.
 

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