Finding a partnership - questions and advice wanted

[HawkEye244]

Asking for advice :

My long term ambition is to have my own business plastering and rendering. I really enjoy it as a job despite the graft.

At the moment I am employed, working for a sole trader who is about 20 years my senior. As you have already pictured, this involves me doing a lot of the graft parts of the job, which is fine (skilled labouring) but not much finishing.

I'm not quite ready to go out on my own yet. So starting up as a sole trader right now would not be a good idea.

The ideal outcome would be to find a partner (also mid-30s) with the same passion and ambition and about the same skill set (someone that's comfortable working a trowel) and where the both of us can bump heads and come up with solutions and most importantly start earning some decent money !

Can anyone offer any advice ? I know that most of you long time members will have been in this situation and I'm not looking to drop this job for a while because the chap I work for is reasonable enough. I'm just starting to get cold feet as I've learnt a tremendous amount over the last few months and would like the pay to start reflecting my skill set. Basically, I don't see myself in this position in six months.


One thing I had though about is putting out an advertisement either online or in the local newspaper and see what comes back. I'm looking for someone with the same level of enthusiasm and dedication that I have.


Any thoughts / good and bad?

Thanks for sharing

 

[Mottie]

Why aren't you skilled in finishing? If you are not skilled in finishing, then you'll be in the same position doing the grafting work for someone else. Partnerships rarely work as one partner will eventually think they are doing the most work. Learn how to do the complete job, get someone to do the grafting work for you and can take the lions share of the profits.

 

[opps]

Asking for advice :

My long term ambition is to have my own business plastering and rendering. I really enjoy it as a job despite the graft.

At the moment I am employed, working for a sole trader who is about 20 years my senior. As you have already pictured, this involves me doing a lot of the graft parts of the job, which is fine (skilled labouring) but not much finishing.

I'm not quite ready to go out on my own yet. So starting up as a sole trader right now would not be a good idea.

The ideal outcome would be to find a partner (also mid-30s) with the same passion and ambition and about the same skill set (someone that's comfortable working a trowel) and where the both of us can bump heads and come up with solutions and most importantly start earning some decent money !

Can anyone offer any advice ? I know that most of you long time members will have been in this situation and I'm not looking to drop this job for a while because the chap I work for is reasonable enough. I'm just starting to get cold feet as I've learnt a tremendous amount over the last few months and would like the pay to start reflecting my skill set. Basically, I don't see myself in this position in six months.


One thing I had though about is putting out an advertisement either online or in the local newspaper and see what comes back. I'm looking for someone with the same level of enthusiasm and dedication that I have.


Any thoughts / good and bad?

Thanks for sharing

I kina get your point, but are you trained up or not? When I talk about being trained, I don't mean having paid for some kind of accreditation.

I am currently working on site with the best brick pointer than I have ever come across. I am there to decorate.

https://www.yell.com/biz/aspen-brick-pointing-london-6841447/

Colin the pointer turns up to repoint a house and then has 5 other home owners asking when he will be available. in most cases, the answer be "later in the year- or next year- but 90% of the time, they wait,

As a decorator (which I am), he throws my name in to the proverbial hat- he wants the woodwork to be as impressive as the finish that he provided.

Your problem is that you don't have that recommendation chain above you . Not sure how you will square that in the meantime. I hope you get there though.

 

[HawkEye244]

Why aren't you skilled in finishing? If you are not skilled in finishing, then you'll be in the same position doing the grafting work for someone else. Partnerships rarely work as one partner will eventually think they are doing the most work. Learn how to do the complete job, get someone to do the grafting work for you and can take the lions share of the profits.

Finishing is usually the hardest to get on because the fellow I work for likes to do it. It's that simple.

I can finish but I'm not confident enough just yet.

I should take on some small jobs of my own on the side for friends and family to really hone the finishing and then I suppose it would equip me with the complete skill set.

I suppose you're right about the partnerships although if you are both working side by side on the same job and agree to who does work it seems like it could work (in theory). Yes the money is **** at the moment haha

 

[HawkEye244]

I kina get your point, but are you trained up or not? When I talk about being trained, I don't mean having paid for some kind of accreditation.

I am currently working on site with the best brick pointer than I have ever come across. I am there to decorate.

https://www.yell.com/biz/aspen-brick-pointing-london-6841447/

Colin the pointer turns up to repoint a house and then has 5 other home owners asking when he will be available. in most cases, the answer be "later in the year- or next year- but 90% of the time, they wait,

As a decorator (which I am), he throws my name in to the proverbial hat- he wants the woodwork to be as impressive as the finish that he provided.

Your problem is that you don't have that recommendation chain above you . Not sure how you will square that in the meantime. I hope you get there though.

All my experience has come from working on jobs and not at a training college.

Yeah, it looks like your pointer friend has a good reputation and good people are always in demand. Although at the moment I'm not looking to take that full plunge into self employment just yet.

 

[opps]

All my experience has come from working on jobs and not at a training college.

Yeah, it looks like your pointer friend has a good reputation and good people are always in demand. Although at the moment I'm not looking to take that full plunge into self employment just yet.

I guess you are in between a rock and a hard place.


One would hope that the guy that you currently work for will appreciate that you will wanna go solo at some point. I would like to think that the amount of money that he has paid you thus far has been a function of your skill set and the fact that he considers that he was training you..

I would recommend that, you perhaps tell him that you wanna take on a price job, do it with his blessing, and offer him a tiny commission. If things go wrong, he should be there to help you though.

If you plan to walk away, you risk burning bridges.

 

[Old Salt]

Have a chat with him and sound him out. My granddaughters boyfriend is a plumber (sorry heating engineer) but the guy he did his apprenticeship with remains a firm friend. They do a couple of days a week together on big jobs, work on their own and help each other out when necessary. Seems to work for both parties.

 

[HawkEye244]

Good comments gents.
Thanks a lot
Lots to think about

 

[Andy165]

You have to get stuck in on the finishing. That is make or break. Push it with your current employer. It's the only way to get better. Or do weekend work for yourself and get the hands on that way.

 

[FiremanT]

I am not a plasterer, and have failed miserably when having a go. But I have been self employed, sole trader, Ltd Co and employed.

Re advertising for a partner: don’t go there. You will spend an age talking to wannabe’s , hopeless cases and downright fraudsters.
If you do find a potential partner then Talk. And talk. Talk again. Discuss EVERY THING - how will wages be paid, when and how will profits be split , exit strategies, who does what. Income for sickness and holidays. Start up costs and tool replenishment. It goes on. If you need finance, where to go. If you need a business plan and cash flow forecast for finance - who pays for that and when, especially if the arrangement does not take off. You should have everything thing in a Partnership Agreement- again costs apply even if you don’t ultimately get going.

If you think this is all a ball ache, then stop. If you cannot discuss before entering a partnership how will the inevitable disagreements be resolved.

With regard to your perceived skill set: You may be better equipped than you think , and your major deficit is in “confidence”.

If your boss will not let you complete your “training” , he is doing you a disservice.
As per a previous comment, consider doing private jobs. As a gasman, if I get it wrong people could die. If you get it wrong someone gets a bit miffed and you may lose money, so go for it.

Frankly, you are probably overestimating the quality of what will be your competition.
My daughter bought a brand new house last year, and the plastering was between okay and bad (- but they have been a thorn in the builders side, and most issues have been resolved).
I have had to employ plasterers over the years, and by and large, the average skill set is low. I used probably three that were really good, but even the poorer ones seem to get enough work.(The biggest problem I had with plasterers is their sense of being the Crème de la Crème of the building industry, even the poor ones.

The window for striking out is short, before you know it, you will be slowing down and your shoulder will be getting old. Go for it while you have the energy AND the motivation. Just remember that SE is more than doing the trade - you are running a business that takes time and cost.

Finally, re partnerships, each partner is responsible for the others finances. Even without a Partnership Agreement, the taxman can Judge you to be partners, and apply tax laws as applicable. Essentially, if you are PERCEIVED by the public as partners, you are partners.

Good Luck, remember that many have taken the leap and succeeded.

 

[opps]

The biggest problem I had with plasterers is their sense of being the Crème de la Crème of the building industry, even the poor ones.

I have lost count of the number of plasterers that have told me that I won't need to do any prep on their walls prior to painting them...

Thus far, I would say that only 5% of walls that I have been painted have been plastered to a very high standard, 15% poorly and the majority being more than acceptable, but those figures are skewed by the fact that most of my customers are relatively affluent middle class people.

That said, I have encountered several tradesmen that have an over inflated ego. At one point I employed a fellow decorator who would, for example, paint a ceiling and gush about what an amazing job he had done. The moment he left site, I would roll an additional coat to level out the sheen.