Finding rad order to balance system

[richard whitehill]

Hi all, is it absolutely necessary to find the order rads are on the system in aid to balance them effectively? I have no idea where my radiators are with respect to 1 through 10 and have tried the running around and touching method with little success!
Is it acceptable just to check flow and return on each rad and adjust to 12 deg drop across the rad?
I have TRVs on all but one in a cloakroom rad, 6 of which are part of my Tado system. My suspicion is some are on flow and a couple perhaps on the return.
Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[terryplumb]

Easy to establish which is flow on a rad ,put heating on and whatever pipe to a rad heats first is the flow.
I don't think it's important to know what particular order the rads heat up ,or where they are on the system. If they currently heat fairly consistently at the same rate ,the system is probably fairly well balanced as is.

 

[JohnD]

No.

Where did you hear that story?

 

[richard whitehill]

Sorry it was on the forum...

 

[Madrab]

The whole point of balancing a system is as much ensuring the whole system heats up uniformly as much as maximising radiator efficiency by setting the required drop across the rad . A house will heat up more efficiently if all the rads heat up at the same time and at the same rate.

It is more of an issue the larger the system is and greater the distances from the boiler etc. If the system doesn't all heat up the same or some rads take a lot longer or rads are hotter than others then it needs balanced

To do that ideally you need to know where each rad is in the chain and which one heats up 1st/2nd/3rd .......

 

[JohnD]

ideally you need to know where each rad is in the chain and which one heats up 1st/2nd/3rd .......

What will you differently?

 

[Madrab]

What will you differently?

'scuse me?

The reason I like to find out the order of heat up?

If one rad heats up before another I don't see that as being balanced, I want them all to heat up at the same time. I will always start with the farthest away and crack that valve open until it starts to warm, then work my way back along the chain. Usually it ends up with the closest lockshield being open the least number of turns with the farthest away being open the most, that way the flow is balanced and each rad heats up at the same rate.

Then it's onto finer adjustment so the temp drop across the rad is correct

 

[JohnD]

And how would the results be different if you started at the closest, or randomly?

 

[gas112]

How would a big rad 13 metres away from a boiler heat up at the same time frame as small one 2 metres away ?

 

[Madrab]

Because I find it faster and easier to adjust when I start at the farthest away, open the last valve till it flows, then work back to the next closest then back to the first to check it's still flowing, if not open a little more and work like that back to the closest to the boiler. I find it easier to keep track and given the farthest away will need more flow that the closest it's always going to be the one that'll be open more and the valve settings will always be incrementally less working back towards the boiler to ensure they all heat up the same.

As suggested this is more relevent the larger the system is with longer pipe runs, not so important in small systems with short pipe runs. They only need set to ensure the temp across the rad is suitable.

 

[Madrab]

How would a big rad 13 metres away from a boiler heat up at the same time frame as small one 2 metres away ?

By adjusting the lockshield properly??

 

[gas112]

By adjusting the lockshield properly??

nonsense by the very nature you are having to shift far far more cold water first to get them to heat up at same rate

 

[Madrab]

A small rad 2m away, wouldn't need anywhere near as much flow as a big rad 13m away to heat up at the same time. This isn't an exact science, never is, the aim is to get everything to heat up as close as the same time as possible.

 

[gas112]

A small rad 2m away, wouldn't need anywhere near as much flow as a big rad 13m away to heat up at the same time. This isn't an exact science, never is, the aim is to get everything to heat up as close as the same time as possible.

oh we are now at as close to , but a rad and pipework next to boiler holding a few pints of water is going to heat up far quicker than a big double at the end of a run at far end of house basic physics

 

[Madrab]

oh we are now at as close to , but a rad and pipework next to boiler holding a few pints of water is going to heat up far quicker than a big double at the end of a run at far end of house basic physics

I just love the way you don't mince your words ... it is not nonsense .... why do you have to be so literal about everything I say and pick over every little detail, there really is no need for it.

We all know that CH systems are not an exact science and it's always a best endevour to make the best out of the system possible, that comes to balancing as it does to any other part of it.