fire doors

[Groovejet]

I've completed 10 fire doors and frames for the first time and after a few hours tweeking here and there, they look good.
The finished size off the frame i made 1/4'' bigger than the door, then routed the fire strips in , but when the area around the frames was plastered the frames have swelled and screwed up my work.
Any help please.
What is the correct sequence to do the job? ie first fix etc

 

[joinerjohn]

Correct way would have been to fix the frames first. Let the plasterer come and do his job then hang the doors after. Plasterers also have the habit of knocking frames slightly and as you say the amount of water in the plaster affects wooden door frames.

 

[Groovejet]

Thanks 4 that, but was i correct to leave 1/4'' gap to fit the fire doors and could you give any tips so i dont have to do so much tweeking,cutting and plaining?
Much appreciated John

 

[joinerjohn]

1/4" gap (if all the way round) sounds perhaps a bit too much. I'd have gone for an 1/8" gap.
When hanging doors, I usually plane a leading edge on both sides first, then plane the hinge side to fit the frame. Then plane the closing edge down so the door fits into the frame. Wedge it up and check the head of the door.
Once everything is ok, I wedge the door up again and leave virtually no gap at the head (only with fire doors though. The weight of the door will make it drop.) Mark the hinges on both the door and frame. Chop the hinges out hang the door (again working on the hinge cut outs to ensure a nice tight fit.
Fit the door furniture etc.
I much prefer to put intumescent strip into the door frame (just find that easier, but not a problem to put them in the door)

Ooh just forgot to add,,, I much prefer to hang doors into frames I have put in, as I know there'll be little work on the door. I usually make the frame 30, 1/4" wide (for a 30" door. leaves the 1/8" either side )
I hate fitting doors onto existing frames. Specially very old properties where the door sizes are sometimes unique to the area. Also buildings have probably settled over the years so door frames can be a country mile out of square/plumb/twist.

Hope this helps.

 

[Groovejet]

Yea, thats brilliant John!
Thats what i meant i'd done, leaving 1/8'' either side, 1/4'' in total. It looks like ive done the job the hard way , but at the end of the day there gonna be right....hopefully!!
Its for a friend so i can p#ss about till there correct.
Cheers once again

 

[Groovejet]

One last thing on the hinge side ive had problems with the gap im getting. im aiming for a 1/8'' gap all around but sometimes on the hinge side im getting next to nowt!
Think maybe sommit to do with bent wood also!!!!

 

[joinerjohn]

Your welcome mate. In future though, first fix the door frames then come back after the plasterer. Frames do get knocked about and swell once the plasterer's in doing his bit. I always try to get at least a minimum of 8 fixings per side in the door frame (depends on what they are fixing to)

The small gap on the hinge side, could be you're cutting the hinges too deep. Try packing them out if the gaps too small.

 

[ladylola]

Agree about the gaps , I usually aim for a 2p peice to fit snugly in the gap. That said if fitting the intumesent strips with the brushes you will need a larger gap I've always found, 1/8 or so and the whole thing will bind.

 

[JohnD]

I think the strip looks neater in the frame. If you rout out the door edge, any fitting or planing will reduce the depth. (never put it in the stop as it will push the door open when it swells)

I like the woolly strip as it stops draughts too. ladylola, what gap would you allow, as it can be pushed in later?

BTW I also like the expanding fire foam behind the door lining, to fill the gap and also hold the lining more firmly.

 

[ladylola]

The gap will depend on the lenght of the pile on the brushes and I seem to recall it goes from about 3mm upto something like 10 or 12 mm. I normally aim for a little less than the lenght of the pile, it should really just brush the door or frame and not have to be forced. The type of door closer fitted can influence the size too , with an overhead there seems to be more power to overcome any excess friction whereas with a perko it's better to be as accurate as possible.
What ever you use though it's always adviseable to fit after decoration, it looks neater and any paint on the brushes makes them rigid and inflexable.
I'll add my agreement that they do look and work better in the frames as most people have said.

 

[JohnD]

thanks, I'm having some new ones fitted shortly, and as I was going to redecorate before fitting the new strip, I will try to get some scraps of woolly strip for the joiner to use as a guide (I am a very slow worker myself, especially with heavy doors). I have not measured the groove in the linings but it looked like about 12mm wide (am getting from local Wickes, the doors are Premdoor 6-panel) and I have Perkos.

 

[WestmidsChippy]

:S

If it was correct to start with...

Then once plaster has dried then the frames and door will go back to as it was.

I have never had a problem