Fitting a different shower - not enough cable

[ban-all-sheds]

So...

It's been 2 hours since Martin expressed exactly the same opinion as I.

And yet holmslaw has not branded him a nutter.

Why?

Could it be because holmslaw is a deranged and insecure little ***t who is driven by irrational dislikes, rather than someone who deals with posts on their merits?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OP doesn't want a bigger shower, anyway - just a longer cable.

The OP might have liked the opportunity to have a bigger shower.

But that opportunity was lost when, at a point in time when it would have cost, in practical terms, nothing extra to do, her poxy electrician let her down.

 

[aptsys]

8.5kW showers are perfectly fine. My parents' still have 7.5kW showers and only ever have them on eco mode.

Is there definitely no alternate route for cable entry into the shower? There's usually multiple entrances for both water and electricity.

 

[scousespark]

OP doesn't want a bigger shower, anyway - just a longer cable.

The OP might have liked the opportunity to have a bigger shower.

But that opportunity was lost when, at a point in time when it would have cost, in practical terms, nothing extra to do, her poxy electrician let her down.

No he didn't. He installed a cable, to suit an 8.5Kw load. The OP isn't fitting a larger shower, just replacing the same wattage. Even if a larger shower has been bought, the first electrician couldnt be expected to see into the future.

As for the original question, the correct remedy is to rewire from the shower switch. If this is not practical, the cable can of course be extended.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No he didn't. He installed a cable, to suit an 8.5Kw load. The OP isn't fitting a larger shower, just replacing the same wattage. Even if a larger shower has been bought, the first electrician couldn't be expected to see into the future.

No he couldn't, and I'm not saying he could.

But what he could see was the possibility that within the lifespan of the installation a more powerful shower might be wanted.

What he could and should have done was to have at least discussed it with his client to see if, for an extra fiver, they would like a degree of future-proofing.

And anybody who thinks that there is nothing wrong with an electrician not bothering to give his clients the benefit of any of his knowledge and experience, and that in blindly doing only what the client asks because he can't be rsed is acting in his clients' best interests is equally useless.

 

[scousespark]

The electrician who installed the shower circuit has followed the process set down as part of the syllabus for c&g 2360 (or 2330). As you know BAS. this calculates the cable size based on the load.

We don't know what the scenario was when he did the fit. None of the c&g qualified electricians I know are in the habit of upgrading the cable, in case the customer wants to fit a bigger shower in future. This would be as pointless as leaving a 50m roll off 2.5 under the floorboards, in case the customer decides to add a few sockets after I've gone.

He may not have been as helpful as you would like BAS, but he has done his job.

 

[JohnW2]

He may not have been as helpful as you would like BAS, but he has done his job.

For once, I'm actually with BAS on this one, in sentiment if not strength of language.

Yes, the electrician did his job correctly but, as you say, was perhaps not as helpful as he could have been. As BAS has said (more strongly) it would be nice to think that the electrician would at least discuss the possibility of 'future proofing' the wiring. When one employs an experienced tradesman or professional, one hopes that issues like this (which the customer may not have thought of) will at least be brought to one's attention.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The electrician who installed the shower circuit has followed the process set down as part of the syllabus for c&g 2360 (or 2330). As you know BAS. this calculates the cable size based on the load.

Indeed.

But there is nothing in either of those syllabi, or BS 7671, which forbids the electrician from having a discussion with his client about whether, for an insignificant increase in cost, the client would like the cable to be able to support a higher load in the future.

We don't know what the scenario was when he did the fit. None of the c&g qualified electricians I know are in the habit of upgrading the cable, in case the customer wants to fit a bigger shower in future.

If none of them even try to discuss that with the customer then none of them are acting in their customer's best interest and all of them are failing in their duty of care.

This would be as pointless as leaving a 50m roll off 2.5 under the floorboards, in case the customer decides to add a few sockets after I've gone.

Don't be stupid.

He may not have been as helpful as you would like BAS, but he has done his job.

No he hasn't.

IMO failing to give useful advice based on his superior knowledge and experience is unprofessional, uncaring, and, since design is part of the work, in contravention of 134.1.1.

 

[riveralt]

the shower is much older than 2 years old, but when the house was re-wired the electricians re-fitted it

Shame you didn't have them install a cable large enough to take a more powerful shower.

They weren't very conscientious if they didn't suggest that.

You got your crystal balls out again BAS.

Since the OP has not responded to your implied charge that he/she should have had a larger cable installed - you have then decided that it must be the electrician who is at fault for not suggesting a larger cable be installed, 'just in case'.
You must have been rubbing them balls very hard to have this insight.
How do you know that this question was not raised by the original electrican and the OP said no thankyou - you don't.

But for the sake of continuing a useless argument (now back up by JohnW - shame on you!) who is also obviously rubbing your crystal balls

For once, I'm actually with BAS on this one, in sentiment if not strength of language.

Yes, the electrician did his job correctly but, as you say, was perhaps not as helpful as he could have been. As BAS has said (more strongly) it would be nice to think that the electrician would at least discuss the possibility of 'future proofing' the wiring. When one employs an experienced tradesman or professional, one hopes that issues like this (which the customer may not have thought of) will at least be brought to one's attention.

Kind Regards, John.

you continue to spout and make up even more stories about this electrician that you now nothing about. Like for example.

The OP might have liked the opportunity to have a bigger shower.

But that opportunity was lost when, at a point in time when it would have cost, in practical terms, nothing extra to do, her poxy electrician let her down.

So without any evidence to the contrary Judge BAS has decided the said 'poxy electrician' is guilty of said charge - you really are now talking drivel - and having created this illusion that you somehow know what went on two years ago you continue to rant - castigating this persons character without any ACTUAL knowlege of what went on.

No he didn't. He installed a cable, to suit an 8.5Kw load. The OP isn't fitting a larger shower, just replacing the same wattage. Even if a larger shower has been bought, the first electrician couldn't be expected to see into the future.

No he couldn't, and I'm not saying he could.

But what he could see was the possibility that within the lifespan of the installation a more powerful shower might be wanted.

What he could and should have done was to have at least discussed it with his client to see if, for an extra fiver, they would like a degree of future-proofing.

And anybody who thinks that there is nothing wrong with an electrician not bothering to give his clients the benefit of any of his knowledge and experience, and that in blindly doing only what the client asks because he can't be rsed is acting in his clients' best interests is equally useless.

I really think that it is time you opened your mind to the various possibilities that could have occured and closed your mouth on this one.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

All this ranting, and I don't think anyone even knows what size cable or breaker was actually in place, or has any real evidence that it wasn't big enough.

 

[JohnW2]

But for the sake of continuing a useless argument (now back up by JohnW - shame on you!) who is also obviously rubbing your crystal balls ...

As you say, we don't know the facts of the OP's case. What niggled me a little was that, when it was suggested (with inappropriate presumption and language) that the electrician may have failed to discuss the alternatives with the customer, several people supported such (hypothetical) 'failure to discuss' on the grounds that the electrician 'did the job correctly'. AFAIAC, if electricians want to be regarded and treated as professionals, rather than 'fitters', then they should advise as well as undertake work in a technically proficient manner.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You got your crystal balls out again BAS.

Since the OP has not responded to your implied charge that he/she should have had a larger cable installed - you have then decided that it must be the electrician who is at fault for not suggesting a larger cable be installed, 'just in case'.
You must have been rubbing them balls very hard to have this insight.
How do you know that this question was not raised by the original electrican and the OP said no thankyou - you don't.

Read what I wrote again - only this time try to pay a little more attention.

They weren't very conscientious if they didn't suggest that.

you continue to spout and make up even more stories about this electrician that you now nothing about. Like for example.

The OP might have liked the opportunity to have a bigger shower.

But that opportunity was lost when, at a point in time when it would have cost, in practical terms, nothing extra to do, her poxy electrician let her down.

So without any evidence to the contrary Judge BAS has decided the said 'poxy electrician' is guilty of said charge - you really are now talking drivel - and having created this illusion that you somehow know what went on two years ago you continue to rant - castigating this persons character without any ACTUAL knowlege of what went on.

Yes - that was badly worded - I hadn't noticed, and the subsequent exchanges were all about the generic position of should an electrician advise his client on the basis of things his knowledge and experience have told him which his client may not have considered.

I should have said "But that opportunity was lost if, at a point in time when it would have cost, in practical terms, nothing extra to do, her poxy electrician let her down."

I really think that it is time you opened your mind to the various possibilities that could have occured and closed your mouth on this one.

What I said to scousepark was nothing to do with what did/might/did not/might not have happened with the OPs rewire 2 years ago, and everything to do with his belief that an electrician shouldn't even suggest, when asked to install a circuit for an 8.5kW shower, that the client consider the possibility that he might want a larger one in the future.

Have a search on this site, and see how many people have posted because they want to fit a new shower and they want it to be more powerful than the old one because the old one was small and feeble.

It happens, and you know it does. Maybe 20 years ago if someone asked for a circuit to cope with an 8.5kW shower it would have been OK to just go with it without asking, but 2 years ago, or now?

No way.