Flow Rate for new En-Suite Shower (21mm Pipes)

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

Hi everyone

The refurb in our en-suite is going well, we are currently looking at showers.

At the moment the house has an old Icos HE24 boiler downstairs, a hot water cylinder in the bathroom upstairs, two obscenely large black plastic water tanks in the loft (with a small expansion tank)

From the loft we have a cold water pipe running down from the cold water feed to the tank (T junction), that used to be attached to the old electric shower (some aldi special). But, "we" don't want an electric shower as the designs are all a bit naff.

Ripping up the floor, I see 2 x 21mm pipes coming from the water cylinder (same level - about 7 meters away). They are both capped at the shower control level.

I assume whoever put the replacement shower in capped those pipes and whacked in a leccy one (but we can't remember when or why)

At some point we will replace this boiler/water cylinder with a combi.

Based based the water cylinder is on the same level as the shower, I'm trying to work out whether "we" can look at ordinary showers, or carry on looking for a nice looking electric shower.

I have no idea what the bar pressure is, don't really want to go buying one for a single job

* "we" = the lady, the master, the boss, the mrs, the one we need to please!

 

[terryplumb]

The pressure will be very poor on any thermostatic mixer shower if your loft tanks are just above the ceiling level of your en suite.
You could install a pump, or a shower with an integral pump.

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

The pressure will be very poor on any thermostatic mixer shower if your loft tanks are just above the ceiling level of your en suite.
You could install a pump, or a shower with an integral pump.

Thanks Terry - Appreciate that answer, sounds like a faff (that I don't need). Thee tanks are indeed just above ceiling height, right bang in the middle of the loft, why the builders couldn't do a decent of this God knows.

Have you installed these at all?

https://www.mirashowers.co.uk/showers/electric-showers/mira-galena-98kw

https://www.mirashowers.co.uk/showers/electric-showers/mira-azora-98kw

Lumi Electric Shower 9.5kW - Chrome

Make the ultimate style statement with Lumi Electric Showers. With a sleek mirrored fascia featuring illuminated panels, Lumi electric shower offers a premium shower experience without the demand on stored hot water in the house.

www.aqualisa.co.uk

 

[Nigel R]

I put in a shower with a pump, as a DIY-er, and it was pretty straightforward. Then the flow switched it on and off and we never had to think about it. The shower experience was well worth it, made me glad every morning! Like you we had an open tank in the roof above.

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

I put in a shower with a pump, as a DIY-er, and it was pretty straightforward. Then the flow switched it on and off and we never had to think about it. The shower experience was well worth it, made me glad every morning! Like you we had an open tank in the roof above.

Ello mate!

I'm actually on amazon at the moment trying to understand, I'm against a wall at the moment with shower designs.

Can't beat a use of keywords!

Amazon.co.uk : shower pump

Where did you put your pump? Beside the cylinder in the cupboard? How on earth does it know when to switch on/off? My knowledge of pumps so far is less than 4 minutes

How long did it take you, and much cursing?

 

[terryplumb]

I have installed an azora, but not the other two . To be frank most instantaneous electric showers don't live up to the sales patter and things like " premium shower experience" are way off the mark,and should be ignored. Acceptable showering experience would be a better description for 9.5 Kwatt.
If you are thinking of getting a gas combi boiler ,which would give you far better flow rates / showering experience , then get a thermostatic shower valve fitted with a pump now. The pump would be redundant once the combi is fitted.

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

I have installed an azora, but not the other two . To be frank most instantaneous electric showers don't live up to the sales patter and things like " premium shower experience" are way off the mark,and should be ignored. Acceptable showering experience would be a better description for 9.5 Kwatt.
If you are thinking of getting a gas combi boiler ,which would give you far better flow rates / showering experience , then get a thermostatic shower valve fitted with a pump now. The pump would be redundant once the combi is fitted.

Thanks Terry, that's helped me make a decision, I think I'm going to have to install a pump in the airing cupboard, tomorrow I'll faff and see where these pipes are going to. Nothing like sticking our heads under the floorboards with a torch eh?

Currently looking at this (basing it on cheap, cheerful & lots of reviews)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flowflex-SP2B-Booster-Solution-Pressure/dp/B07HZ7H35N/

 

[terryplumb]

Have fitted a few ,they are simple to fit ,and reasonably cheap ,and will boost your gravity fed set up. The flow rate is boosted to a similar level to what an electric shower would achieve. Although it's preferred to boost both hot and cold ( so 2 pumps) I have successfully just used one to boost the hot water.
If you were not going to have a combi fitted though ,I would advise you to fit a larger ,twin impellor pump .

 

[Nigel R]

Ello mate!

I'm actually on amazon at the moment trying to understand, I'm against a wall at the moment with shower designs.

Can't beat a use of keywords!

Amazon.co.uk : shower pump

Where did you put your pump? Beside the cylinder in the cupboard? How on earth does it know when to switch on/off? My knowledge of pumps so far is less than 4 minutes

How long did it take you, and much cursing?

Well the pros like Terryplumb are a better guide than me, and it was a long time ago. My memory isn't too reliable but as far as it goes I think I just fed the flow through the pump ports, plugged it in and that was it! The flow itself switches the pump on and off, so it can go anywhere. I only remember fitting one pump. Hopefully one of the sales sites will have downloadable instructions for ones they sell?

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

Have fitted a few ,they are simple to fit ,and reasonably cheap ,and will boost your gravity fed set up. The flow rate is boosted to a similar level to what an electric shower would achieve. Although it's preferred to boost both hot and cold ( so 2 pumps) I have successfully just used one to boost the hot water.
If you were not going to have a combi fitted though ,I would advise you to fit a larger ,twin impellor pump .

Thanks, I think the cold is good, but, you're right. I've been looking at twin pumps now and came across this:

Grundfos 98950216 Regenerative Twin Shower Pump 1.5bar

Order online at Screwfix.com. Designed for boosting water pressure to a gravity-fed system where the outlets are below the cold water storage tank. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 5 minutes.

www.screwfix.com

Seems easy enough?

 

[terryplumb]

There is more to it than you think !
A flange needs to be fitted to the hot water cylinder to ensure an air free supply to the pump ,and pumping 20 litres per minute ,a ten minute shower would use 200 litres of water ,so the cylinder/ header tanks capacities, and mains cold replenishment all need to be taken into consideration .
Although regenerative pumps are sometimes fitted without flange on hot water cylinder , I would recommend that you do.

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

There is more to it than you think !
A flange needs to be fitted to the hot water cylinder to ensure an air free supply to the pump ,and pumping 20 litres per minute ,a ten minute shower would use 200 litres of water ,so the cylinder/ header tanks capacities, and mains cold replenishment all need to be taken into consideration .

Oh Terry, that's all for lesson two(!)

I've seen a red pump at the cylinder, in the morning I'm emptying the airing cupboard and see what's what, this is a taylor wimpy type house (the quality is shocking) if one of their monkey's can do it, we will make it good. Few years back I had to replace the motor switching from hot water/heating(?) was a honeywell thing.

 

[SwitchTheElectricsOff]

Well the pros like Terryplumb are a better guide than me, and it was a long time ago. My memory isn't too reliable but as far as it goes I think I just fed the flow through the pump ports, plugged it in and that was it! The flow itself switches the pump on and off, so it can go anywhere. I only remember fitting one pump. Hopefully one of the sales sites will have downloadable instructions for ones they sell?

Makes life more interesting Nigel(!)

The workmanship is terrible, as I'm going along each room to redecorate, I'm fixing all their mistakes. In the morning I'm throwing all the muck out of the airing cupboard to get a proper look.
If you hear a loud boom, you know I've done something I shouldn't have!

 

[terryplumb]

The red pump is your central heating pump !!

 

[Nigel R]

Makes life more interesting Nigel(!)

The workmanship is terrible, as I'm going along each room to redecorate, I'm fixing all their mistakes. In the morning I'm throwing all the muck out of the airing cupboard to get a proper look.
If you hear a loud boom, you know I've done something I shouldn't have!

Lol, yes life is a voyage of discovery after all! My house has way too much dubious history as well. Go for it, and all the best!