Flue insulation to reduce condensation.

[james0james]

Hello all,many thanks for my last request for help.
This is my neighbours boiler and as they are not internet people (age) I am trying to help them out with advice.
Following an engineers visit,it was found the defect was the boiler sump (powermax 155) was holding water (condense) the 6m long flue pipe run in the loft was cooling quickly and creating excessive condensation which would drip into the boiler.The loft is very very cold.
so it has been recommended to insulate the flue pipe so where can this product be sourced...

class 0 foil backed glass or mineral wool,suitable for 200 degree c.,flue is 65mm outside diameter.

Many thanks.

 

[Agile]

That is a problem design boiler and someone was killed by a flue fault on one being maintained by British Gas.

You don't say who advised insulation!

My advice would be not to get involved as a DIYer with anything like that.

Apart from obvious safety aspects, I don't expect you to have public liability insurance for a field in which you are not qualified.

Tony

 

[james0james]

Tony thank you for your interesting reply,just a quick alarming reply to your first line.

You say the boiler has a problem design and the flue will go faulty and kill,even if maintained.

I am contacting the repair engineer to ask him why this was not pointed out to us,the rest of your reply we can comment on later.

Thanks for your time.

 

[simond]

It is true the boiler range has had a few issues but as far as I'm aware, only British Gas have managed to kill a customer with one.

There are not large numbers of dead people with PowerMAX boilers, but there are a few technical bulletins, one I believe refers to the replacement of the sump on some models.

It would be irresponsible for the service engineer to say what Tony has said; let's put it this way, some people on the internet like to exaggerate.

If the chap said it should be insulated, get him to do it.

 

[muggles]

The flues on these are prone to rotting, and in the spirit of "he who touched it last is responsible for it", I'd get the engineer who recommended the insulation to do the insulating. That way, if a weak spot in the flue turns into a hole which causes a problem, it's his problem and not yours. If you DIY it for them, disturb the flue causing it to leak, and your neighbours die then it'll be you in court for manslaughter.

67mm Rocklap would probably be the best solution http://www.pipelagging.com/rockwool-foil-faced-pipe-insulation-67mm-bore-40mm-thick#.Vp-oxPmLTcs

Note though, that there's a chance it might not be condensation in the sump. These boilers do spring leaks in the main heat exchanger, so if it breaks down again in a few weeks it's probably that, in which case it's going to be new boiler time as they can't be fixed

 

[james0james]

Tony,i have spoken to the engineer,he said if the boiler is installed/maintained as per the book they are ok,he added its usually incorrect service from service engineers who do not have the knowledge/reference material or training.

Before starting on the boiler he inspected the flue pipes in the loft,pulling them around to see if they were rotted,they were ok.

The sump was removed,it was full of water. The engineer thought there could be a hole in the actual boiler so he asked if it could be left disconnected over night and raised the pressure guage to nearly 3bars.
Next day he returns and no drips pressure still where he left it so he confirmed it was condense,finished the repair changed a rubber and flat felt type seal,did quiet a few checks,vaccum & brush the flue runs,checking combustion with a meter,he commented the boiler was in good condition.

He recommended the insulation,the company he contracts for just does on demand repairs and no remedial work.

So that's it,thanks for the interest and link to the insulation product.

 

[james0james]

Tony,sorry you don't get a thank you on this occasion.

 

[Aquaheat]

That's OK OP, I'm sure you won't get much advice in the plumbing section after this occasion.

As much as Tony helps and the majority of his advice is good there are some spurious claims.

Also you gave very scant information in your initial post and as such you got a response that was worthy of the Internet. You spoke with the engineer in question following advice that you requested on here. You were given sound advice from a distance that this is not a DIY job and there has been a known fatality. This spurred you to question the engineer on site instead of ploughing in and creating additional problems.

I normally sit on the fence where TG is concerned but your comment has riled me as a supposed customer after free advice to try and ascertain that you could have done this yourself and I am pretty certain you would have accepted some form of payment from these "neighbours"

Jon

 

[james0james]

He said a well known gas company killed a person,very frightening.

They are not here to respond.

I am sure that company will be interested to know they have been accused of killing a person.

 

[simond]

They already know.

I think the HSE prosecuted them, but you can google it if you are interested.

Is that your neighbour I hear calling?

 

[simond]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/5202976.stm

I Googled it for you.

 

[Agile]

You say the boiler has a problem design and the flue will go faulty and kill,even if maintained.

Thanks for your time.

Although the words may seem somewhat similar that is NOT what I said at all!

The trouble is that when you write that, then others read it and think its what I have said! But it is not.

Because of the problems with that model many, and probably most, engineers will not work on them and refer owners to Baxi and British Gas who have undergone specialised training on them to try and avoid any more fatalities.

No unqualified people should ever work on gas supplies or flues on boilers.

I don't understand why you seem so keen to do work which you are unqualified and uninsured for. As Jon suggests its probably so you can make a quick buck out of your elderly neighbours.

Tony

 

[Agile]

He said a well known gas company killed a person, very frightening.

They are not here to respond.

I am sure that company will be interested to know they have been accused of killing a person.

It would be nicer if you don't write here as if I am "accusing" British Gas and that what I have said is not true.

I am merely relating the well reported facts of the case!

You can read more about it here:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/5202976.stm

 

[snes]

Don't often see you angry, Tony.

But I can understand why in this case.

You GasSafe guys really deserve a medal for trying to help some of the pillocks who post on here - who then can't even manage the simple social skill of showing gratitude.