Gable end rebuild

[the2ofus]

I foolishly bought a house at auction without a survey. I have now had a survey done and the report states 'there is severe bulging to the main gable elevation and the entire wall must be taken down and rebuilt plumb'
It is a typical 2 bed end terrace so length of wall would be around 26/28ft. Could anyone give me an idea of what the cost of having this done would be?

 

[^woody^]

Does your report explain why the wall needs to be rebuilt? Walls can bulge but it is not a problem unless the movement is ongoing .... and if there is ongoing movement, then that needs to be dealt with first.

 

[the2ofus]

Hi Woody, thank you for replying. No the only thing that the survey states relating to this is 'there is severe bulging to the main gable elevation although a part cavity wall tie repair program has been carried out the entire wall must be taken down and rebuilt plumb. All necessary local authority consents must be obtained.
It does also say further on in the report 'In addition to the gable elevation which requires rebuilding the property has suffered previous movement to other parts but I saw no evidence to suggest this is ongoing to these areas'.

 

[^woody^]

Stating that a wall is bulging is not a survey conclusion, just a statement of the obvious.

I would refer back to them and ask then to explain their diagnosis of the cause of the problem and how they reached their conclusion that the wall needs to be rebuilt.

If there was a tie issue, and there is evidence of work being done, then perhaps the required work has been done and the wall has been left as it is, but is fully restrained.

This type of work can be done without the wall needing to be rebuilt, so the information that you require from your surveyor is
What is the actual problem and what caused it?
Has the problem already been rectified by that previous work?
If there is a problem with defective cavity ties, can this be remedied with a system which does not require complete rebuilding?

And the answers should not be a basic yes or no, but a reasoned explanation of all possibilities and options.

You may well need to rebuild the wall, but before that you need to know why and of there are other options.

 

[the2ofus]

Does your report explain why the wall needs to be rebuilt? Walls can bulge but it is not a problem unless the movement is ongoing .... and if there is ongoing movement, then that needs to be dealt with first.

Hi Woody, thank you for replying. No the only thing that the survey states relating to this is 'there is severe bulging to the main gable elevation although a part cavity wall tie repair program has been carried out the entire wall must be taken down and rebuilt plumb. All necessary local authority consents must be obtained.
It does also say further on in the report 'In addition to the gable elevation which requires rebuilding the property has suffered previous movement to other parts but I saw no evidence to suggest this is ongoing to these areas'.
Sorry, I have never posted on here before so if my replies are not done properly please forgive me.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/gable-end-rebuild.435374/#3393069#ixzz3bKOB3UbX

 

[the2ofus]

Stating that a wall is bulging is not a survey conclusion, just a statement of the obvious.

I would refer back to them and ask then to explain their diagnosis of the cause of the problem and how they reached their conclusion that the wall needs to be rebuilt.

If there was a tie issue, and there is evidence of work being done, then perhaps the required work has been done and the wall has been left as it is, but is fully restrained.

This type of work can be done without the wall needing to be rebuilt, so the information that you require from your surveyor is
What is the actual problem and what caused it?
Has the problem already been rectified by that previous work?
If there is a problem with defective cavity ties, can this be remedied with a system which does not require complete rebuilding?

And the answers should not be a basic yes or no, but a reasoned explanation of all possibilities and options.

You may well need to rebuild the wall, but before that you need to know why and of there are other options.

Thank you so much for the advice. I will now contact the surveyor in an attempt to get some answers.

Will let you know how I get on if that's ok.

 

[tony1851]

I would refer back to them and ask then to explain their diagnosis of the cause of the problem

Quick question: as surveyors, would they necessarily be prepared to identify the problem causing the bulge?

Two potential different causes spring to mind - as an end terrace, there may be a drain running alongside which has failed and caused the foundation to tilt;

or maybe roof spread through inadequate tying (if it is a hipped roof on the side).

If the surveyor stated what he thought was causing the problem, and the client acted on that, but it was later found that the diagnosis was incorrect, wouldn't the surveyor be liable?

 

[TheVictorian]

Our house had a lateral restraint issue in the past and there are a few patress plates and tie bars in place and it's not going anywhere now. There is a bulge but I wouldn't dream of having that end of the house rebuilt as it is stable.

Movement caused the bulge, the movement has been stopped and the bulge isn't dangerous.

 

[^woody^]

Quick question: as surveyors, would they necessarily be prepared to identify the problem causing the bulge?

They have to identify a cause before they can determine a remedy - else how can they be sure that their proposed remedy is correct or even appropriate?

They should be exploring all the possible causes, discounting those that are unlikely and arriving at the cause, or the most likely cause. And they should be able to justify why and how they arrived at their conclusions.

The process is the same whether they are writing a full report or just mulling it in their heads.

They are liable (negligent) for stating a specific remedy without justifying why that remedy is more appropriate than another. However, if the surveyor followed a logical reasoned investigation and reached a recommended repair, then they would not likely be negligent if that repair turned out to be the wrong one.

 

[ree]

As above - if its a hip roof then its roof spread thro overloading with, say concrete tiles or an original bad design with no tie-in at the wall plate corners.

As above, Lateral Restraints: Going in the loft and looking for metal ties(straps) from the gable over the loft joists will indicate any previous attempts at remedial work.

Pediment or pike gables were sometimes built off snapped headers - a frequent cause of instability in the upper gable - look for a line of headers at eaves height.

"wall tie repair program" if its a cavity wall, or partial cavity wall - then old ties rusting and swelling can cause movement. They must always be removed before new remedial ties are installed. But its easy to see & follow the wall tie patterns.

Do any of your first floor joists run into the gable or do they all run parallel. Any signs of movement inside the house, or any historic removal of walls?
Is there a chimney breast on the gable?

Why not post pics?

 

[tony1851]

If the staircase runs alongside the gable wall, that will also reduce the possibility of lateral restraint at chamber level.

 

[^woody^]

There are no gables on building with a hipped roof

 

[ree]

Mansard's and Dutch Gables have gables and hipped roofs - but, in the context, i take your point.
FWIW: I did distinguish between pedimented and hipped gables above but perhaps the term wasn't appropriate on here altho i commonly use gable instead of flank or side wall.

 

[^woody^]

This is opportune!

This could be a consequence, but the advice still stands in that the surveyor should confirm the problem before specifying any remedial work

Birmingham Mail

 

[ree]

How come this happened?

(The quality & angle of the pic make viewing difficult for me.)

1. A 1930's semi with a flank wall rising to a brick pike.

2. A shed roof dormer has been a later addition. The shed dormer has a double skin flank wall.

3. The brickwork & pointing are sound, and the corners are plumb, courses are level, no bulges apparent.

4. I cant make out where headers have been used as ties, & there appear to be occasional cavity ties (?) projecting from the inner skin - but no sign of cavity ties in the rubble.
The clean brickwork on the inner skin suggests a cavity (which ties in with the shed roof cavity flank wall).
The last remaining course of bricks below the collapse line are stretchers.

5. The main roof construction is difficult to see - however, two purlins, one on either roof slope, appear to have remained in position below the common rafters. No distortion of the main roof can be seen.

6. I'm not familiar with this type of, what appears to be, a sort of cross "battening" of the rafters on the main roof - until where it meets the shed roof rafters.

7. The top, shed roof rafter is at an angle - whether this is original or due to movement i dont know.

8. I suspect that this area in item 7. is the key point in the collapse of the pike - perhaps the overloading of the last two common rafters plus the lack of a dedicated shed roof trimmer, caused lateral movement - the RH purlin is presumably acting as the trimmer?
The scarcity, or absence, of cavity ties is suspicious but would need a site view.
No supporting dormer studwork can be seen in the pic.
Its possible that an out of sight area of felt shed roof has sagged & caused movement at the flank(s)?
No barge boards are showing in the rubble.

9. I rule out this being a case of a pike being built on snap headers - the double skin rises above the wall plate line.
Likewise, wind wobble & suction - FWIW: if it was wind then the RH neighbour's would have been affected.

10. Pure speculation: a past loft conversion was abandoned - hence no studding or plaster board. Someone has attempted to re-new the loft conversion & disturbed the already shaky variables in-situ?