General question on domestic electrics

[duvet77]

Thanks for your input all.

Nice to know I'm not in any immediate danger! I'll try to address all the points raised so far...

I do have an electric shower and outdoor socket so I need an new CU to get RCD protection.

I'm pretty sure the small CU on the right is redundant. The one fuse in there is marked 'kitchen', but there was a kitchen on the main CU even before I had the kitchen rewired. Shall I just turn it off and see what happens?! I don't know if you noticed on the pics but there are two cut cable ends coming from behind the chipboard it is mounted on. I assume these are an old circuit connected to this CU.

I don't have off peak heating, I have gas central heating, but I do have a normal and low rate on my meter.

It is located in the cellar but not an awful lot I can do about that. I live in a very compact 2 up, 2 down with nowhere else to have all that stuff!

Main earth bonding is as pointed out by JohnD; theres some bare wire coming from the main incoming cable that connects to that little block with the other earths. There then seems to be an earth coming out of the top of the CU and going left to pick up the gas, and then onto the water.

If I get a new CU will they be able to take everything off and mount it on some new plywood? I quite like it to be a bit neater!

What's the meter type thing above the small CU on the right? Is that the bit that monitors the off peak usage?

Thanks again

 

[STI]

Should have gone to specsavers

I can see it. Bog standard either 4 or 6 mm earth as usual with a >40 year old YE TN-S supply

Even now with Johnd's directions i thought that was a cobweb but it does appear to be attached at the earth block one end but your right specsavers here i come as im blowed if i could swear its attached to the other.

Cmon there must be a way of magnifying these pictures

 

[duvet77]

Cmon there must be a way of magnifying these pictures

i can take a close up if you really want to see it!


I tested my sockets again with my Rapitest socket tested, and everything is coming up ok.

it tests the following:

connection/fuse ok
no earth
L/N reverse
N fault
L/E reverse
L/fuse fault

Is that an adequate tester for peace of mind until I get a PIR or should I get the one recommended earlier in this thread?

 

[JohnD]

The new CU should be mounted on its own board, not on the meter board. That belongs to the electricity co, and they like to say they are free to remove or replace it at whim.

I recommend a new board in white laminated chipboard as used for kitchen worktops, if you can get an offcut. It is easy to keep clean and the surface will not support a flame. Space it away from the wall as cellars tend to be damp (a cheap way is to drill holes in the plastic lids of soft drink bottles, and pass the screws through these.. You can also lead cables neatly behind the board in the space and lead them through the back of the new CU (you should not have unsealed accessible holes in enclosures, especially in the top)

It is very unsatisfactory and probably unsafe to have cut ends of cable poking out of a disused CU. This suggests the other ends have not been disconnected inside. Do not try to take the tails out of that connection (Henley) block because they will be live and the inside block can fall out when you undo the screws. If you are no longer using the Economy 7 tariff, ask them to remove the timer and redundant tails. The company will probably not want to do it FOC but the meter fitters might when they are changing the old service head, especially if you supply tea and Jaffa cakes.

You can get a bigger earth block (4 or 8 way, I prefer 8-way) for a pound or so. The cable to the suppliers' earth and to the CU ought to be 16mm G&Y. There was some discussion recently about whether fitting this is notifiable (main bonding to gas and water is not, and you can certainly do it yourself - it should be 10mm to the main earth terminal).

If you provide a spare piece of 16mm G&Y connected to your MET, and long enough to reach to the service head, you can probably get them to connect it when they change the head; which they will do FOC if you tell them it is very old and dribbling tar. Contact the number on your phone bill, it is a common problem. If you don't provide a new cable (it is your responsibility) they will probably just reconnect the old one The cable is about £1.50 or £2 a metre, retail

Personally, I would find it very hard not to fit a new 16mm main earth because I was worried about it being notifiable. However if you do not have the skill and knowledge I am sure it would be possible to do something wrong.

p.s. Socket testers are better than nothing, but they only detect certain very gross faults, and they cannot tell you that your installation is satisfactory. Be sure to engage an electrician who has personal membership of a Competent Persons Scheme, and ask him how long he has been a full member before you give him the job.

p.p.s I would really like to see where that old earth cable is connected to

 

[OwainDIYer]

The thing abovve the right CU is a timeswitch, which changes your meter between day and night rate.

Do your leccy bills show separate day and night rates?

 

[STI]

Cmon there must be a way of magnifying these pictures

i can take a close up if you really want to see it!


I tested my sockets again with my Rapitest socket tested, and everything is coming up ok.

it tests the following:

connection/fuse ok
no earth
L/N reverse
N fault
L/E reverse
L/fuse fault

Is that an adequate tester for peace of mind until I get a PIR or should I get the one recommended earlier in this thread?

No no more pictures i might not be able to see that and then i would be worried.

However on a serious note it is essential that the main earth is attached both ends and I really cant tell from the picture whether it is or not. If in any doubt get a sparks into to check it or better still replace it anyway.

 

[duvet77]

The new CU should be mounted on its own board, not on the meter board. That belongs to the electricity co, and they like to say they are free to remove or replace it at whim.

Would I need to supply this board or would the sparky take care of that?
I could fit a board ready for him to come but it would obvioulsly be in a different location the the current CU.

It is very unsatisfactory and probably unsafe to have cut ends of cable poking out of a disused CU. This suggests the other ends have not been disconnected inside. Do not try to take the tails out of that connection (Henley) block because they will be live and the inside block can fall out when you undo the screws. If you are no longer using the Economy 7 tariff, ask them to remove the timer and redundant tails. The company will probably not want to do it FOC but the meter fitters might when they are changing the old service head, especially if you supply tea and Jaffa cakes.

Don't worry, I don't intend on touching any of this stuff. I'm definitely out of my depth with this meter/CU type stuff. So are you saying my service head needs changing (I assume this is the big bit at the end of the main incoming cable) and I need to go to a meter with a single tariff. Who removes the timer (is this the bit top right?) the sparky or the electricity board?

You can get a bigger earth block (4 or 8 way, I prefer 8-way) for a pound or so. The cable to the suppliers' earth and to the CU ought to be 16mm G&Y. There was some discussion recently about whether fitting this is notifiable (main bonding to gas and water is not, and you can certainly do it yourself - it should be 10mm to the main earth terminal).

Would the sparky just take care of this as part of the CU installation. As mentioned I don't want to touch this stuff myself.

If you provide a spare piece of 16mm G&Y connected to your MET, and long enough to reach to the service head, you can probably get them to connect it when they change the head; which they will do FOC if you tell them it is very old and dribbling tar. Contact the number on your phone bill, it is a common problem. If you don't provide a new cable (it is your responsibility) they will probably just reconnect the old one The cable is about £1.50 or £2 a metre, retail

Sorry for being dim, whats the MET?!
Phone Bill = electricity bill right? I'm with british gas but I assume they aren't responsibly for my actual incoming electrics/meters are they?

Be sure to engage an electrician who has personal membership of a Competent Persons Scheme, and ask him how long he has been a full member before you give him the job.[/i]

Do I just get someone who is NICEIC approved/registered or whatever the term is?

p.p.s I would really like to see where that old earth cable is connected to

I'll take more pics over the weekend.

Thanks for all you're advice. It's appreciated.

 

[duvet77]

The thing abovve the right CU is a timeswitch, which changes your meter between day and night rate.

Do your leccy bills show separate day and night rates?

yes they do.
I submit meter readings monthly for both.

 

[OwainDIYer]

The thing abovve the right CU is a timeswitch, which changes your meter between day and night rate.

Do your leccy bills show separate day and night rates?

yes they do.
I submit meter readings monthly for both.

Unless you have storage heaters you would probably be significantly better off changing to a single rate tariff and using a comparison website to find the best deal.

MET = main earth terminal

Sparky cannot remove timeclock as it is wired into the meter and usually the property of the electricity supplier (DNO) who will be what was formerly known as the 'electricity board', not who sends you the bill.

 

[duvet77]

Sparky cannot remove timeclock as it is wired into the meter and usually the property of the electricity supplier (DNO) who will be what was formerly known as the 'electricity board', not who sends you the bill.

I think I'm starting to understand how the set up works now, thanks to you guys.

Does switching to single tariff need a new meter or do they just disable the timeclock so the current meter measures a single rate only

 

[OwainDIYer]

Usually they give you a new meter.

 

[JohnD]

the electrician might fit a board for you, or he might not want to bother, and just screw the new CU to the wall. IMO you get a better and neater job using a board, spaced off the wall. Cut a 2-inch hole or slot in the middle of it for cables to come through. Put it in a convenient position that you can easily see and reach, but as near as this allows to the meter. Clean out the holes you drill in the wall, and put no-more-nails or similar in them before pushing in the plasplugs, this will give a superlatively strong fixing even in an old wall.

Your service head is rather old and has been leaking tar, so it could do with being replaced by another one. I will not bore you by describing the various companies involved, the work will actually be done by a contractor working for the network operator, but your first point of contact, as a customer, is with the company you deal with, as shown on your bill. Yes, I meant electricity bill. If they are completely useless, try writing them a letter before you try to go to the network operator, as you are not their customer. The timer, the meter, and the incoming cable all belong to the network, and should not be interfered with by you or your electrician. If you do not have off-peak electric heating, then a dual tariff is usually needlessly expensive for you. Even if you change tariff, they are not obliged to remove the timeswitch and change the meter, it is extra trouble and expense for them to do the work. But if you are having your service head replaced they might do it FOC at the same time.

NICIEC operates one of the Competent Person schemes, there are various others.

Your electrician can deal with the MET and the earth cable; but it is important to have this ready before the service head is changed. As I say, if a new earth cable is ready when they change the head, they will connect it. If one isn't, they won't. This will be inconvenient for you later as they will probably seal the connection with your rotten old bit of wire in it, and you are not supposed to break it open, and will not want to pay them to come and do it on an extra visit.

 

[maltaron]

I am not sure whether all suppliers are the same but my meter was changed on an upgrade program. I told the meter fitter that I was no longer on economy7 and he removed the clock and all unnessary wiring and tidied the whole assembly at no charge. I would also suggest that it worth having an isolating switch fitted.

 

[duvet77]

Just had a look at my electricity bill and it appears I'm on a single rate despite having a day/night meter.

I got charged 38 kWh at 22.4p and 171kWh at 8.74p depsite using 77 kWh at night and 132 kWh in the day! That bill is for 28 days and seems to tally with their single rate tariff having the first 500kWh per annum at a higher rate (500/365x28=38 )!

So basically I need to do the following:
1. Have PIR carried out.
2. Rectified issues raised, which may or may not include...
3. Have new CU and MET installed, with earth cable ready for...
4. Have new service head and single rate meter installed, remove economy 7 timer.

Looks like I can kiss goodbye to my new bathroom!