Glazing beads problem

[Gilesda]

Hi all.
I finished fitting a composite door this afternoon which has a glass sidelight attached to the frame. It's a upvc frame and I've hit a massive snag trying to glaze it. I can't get the beads in after hours of trying and I've tried everything.
I've fitted a canny few upvc windows in the past and while glazing beads can be awkward I've never found them to be impossible. This bead has to be pressed down to engage the tab that runs it's full length with the slot in the frame. The problem is it also has to be pushed in to engage the front lip on the frame and as it goes in the glass forces it up so the tab passes over the top of the slot.
It's hard to explain but the profile is in the attached link from the door makers website. I've hit the beads from all angles while pressing down hard and pushing in but I can't even get the short ones to start. This is all before I reach the problem of the frame fixing screw heads that are in the way as well. I reckon I'd defy any man on this planet to get these beads in.

http://www.justdoorsuk.com/downloads/composite-cross-section.pdf

 

[Gazman16]

Its just a nack, Most of us here have done much worse beads than those.
Try pushing the bead in tight (rotating the back leg into position) and pressing in hard with the palm of one of your hands while also using your soft mallet to hit the corner and work along.

You may want to do something about any fixings sticking out. Can you countersink them in or move them to the other edge of the frame?

 

[Gilesda]

The picture on the link doesn't do the difficulty justice. Looking at the drawing it looks like the bead should just push in but the glass thickness stops me from getting the angle I need to get the beads in. Plus the bead tongue that wont go into the slot in the frame is curved upwards making it even harder. The manufacturers website just says straighten the first inch of the tongue to give a start but that doesn't help either. I'm a sheet metal worker so I'm used to working with my hands and parts that don't fit but I always get around the problems. This though has me stumped.

 

[Gazman16]

Sometimes you have to bend all of the tongue down, Dont snap it though obviously

 

[foxhole]

Have you tried hot water to soften everything, in cold weather beading is twice as hard to fit. [or a hair-dryer over it.]

 

[crank39]

I can see how the glass COULD possibly foul the bead, make sure the unit thickness is right for that bead

 

[Gilesda]

When the door and side frame were delivered the glass was held in the frame by the 2 short pieces of beading in the middle of the long edges of the frame. So it must be possible to get them in though I don't know if the beads were correctly locked into the slot. When I first started to fit the beads I thought they were going in but the tongue wasn't going into the slot, just wrapping around the edge of the glass. Wouldn't the manufacturer try the beads in the frame with the glass fitted to make sure everything was ok? I'll fit a bead with no glass and see if it's possible to get something 28mm thick into the gap.
I'm going to leave it till tomorrow though and try again with a fresh mindset. I'll try the hairdryer idea and I'm going to have to countersink the screw heads into the frame but typically my countersink bits are at work. Ah well, life's a bitch, etc.

 

[Gazman16]

Make sure the corners of the tongues are cut off so they dont foul on the welds in the corners.
Get someone to help you by pushing it in while you tap it.
Put some glass cleaner (or soapy water) on the glass and bead rubbers to help it glide against the glass.

 

[crank39]

And make sure your glass packers weren't stopping the unit sliding right back, sometimes the packers can foul the back edge of the inner pane, if it was float glass you'd of broke it by now

 

[Gilesda]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I'll have another bash tomorrow and post back here how it goes.

 

[Gilesda]

Well I had another go and failed again.
The bead has to be forced against the frame and also then hit to push it against the glass and get the front lip to go over the frame front. When I hit the bead the glass thickness pushes the tongue up at the back and it won't go into the slot. I've tried heating lubricating, forcing it in with a hammer handle while striking it with a plastic mallet. I can't even get one of the long beads to start and they flex easily unlike the short pieces which are only about 300mm long.
I'm now looking at sticking the glass in with double sided glazing tape and then siliconing the beads to the glass. Problem with that is if they don't come off the glass at the correct angle the mitres are miles out. The bloody job has turned into a nightmare with what should have been a ten minute nothing to fit the glass panel.
The other thing I can do is cut a groove all the way down the bead on the inside which will allow the tongue a bit of movement independent of the front lip. This is all getting a bit drastic though and I'm not sure it would help.
The only positivity I've had was I got a small block of wood 28mm thick and about 100mm long. Using this in place of the glass I got the bead started and it was only slightly difficult. Put the glass in place though and no chance.
I wish I'd bought the door elsewhere now a different profile like the other windows I've glazed and I wouldn't be typing this message. Annoying doesn't cover it.

 

[crank39]

Find a local plastic doctor/double glazing service engineer local to you, explain the situation and ask if he can pop over to fit them, if I was local to you I'd do it for free

 

[crank39]

Find a local plastic doctor/double glazing service engineer local to you, explain the situation and ask if he can pop over to fit them, if I was local to you I'd do it for free

 

[Doggit]

Looking at the picture, I would say that you push the bead in as far as it will go, then wack down with a soft mallet to drop it into it's seating lip. It pushes under the glass, so as with previous comments, you have to make sure that the packing pieces are pushed to the outside of the frame so that they can't foul the beading as you push it into place, but the method should be push the bead under the glass so that it locates into the retaining slot, then push downwards. I take it that you've set the spaces up so that there's an even gap all the way round.

 

[Gilesda]

Looking at the picture, I would say that you push the bead in as far as it will go, then wack down with a soft mallet to drop it into it's seating lip. It pushes under the glass, so as with previous comments, you have to make sure that the packing pieces are pushed to the outside of the frame so that they can't foul the beading as you push it into place, but the method should be push the bead under the glass so that it locates into the retaining slot, then push downwards. I take it that you've set the spaces up so that there's an even gap all the way round.

The packing pieces aren't a problem and I can't start the beads even well away from the packers.
When I push the bead under the glass edge the little lip on the front of the bead is overhanging the frame front. The tongue doesn't reach the retaing slot at that point its just short of being in the slot.
That is what is causing the problem because as I hit or push the bead to try to get into the retaining slot the tongue is forced up and misses the slot completely
. So I have to push down on the bead to keep the tongue low so it will engage the slot and obviously also push in to force the bead into the slot. Nothing I've tried works.
There is about 6mm space all around between the glass edge and the top of the raised part of the retaining slot. I think the reason I got the bead to go in with the piece of 28mm wood is that i had a bigger gap than that. The corner of the glass fouls the back of the bead which is part of my problem which didn't happen with the wood. A radius on the glass edges or a bigger gap than 6mm would help but that obviously isn't possible.