You may be right, but whilst we have been cleaning house and getting itin order, everyone else has simply been cleaning up!! 
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Didn't the EU rules allow a lovely subsidy for energy industries which many used to keep their coal mines open. We used it to subsidise nuclear power.
So you reckon the police should be obliged to only buy BL cars? Would this help catch speeding burglars?
BL are subsidised. I remember all the arguments about how much British taxpayers money BMW got when they took over. Or when the present lot took over. Exactly the same now someone else is trying. Just a question of how you arrange things.
The question in the end is how far is it worth subsidising and how far does it just make matters worse. We may want a subsidised car company rather than none, but what we really want is one capable of making money. Will this ever happen all the time you keep giving them a subsidy and they never have to face the hard questions.
So you reckon the police should be obliged to only buy BL cars? Would this help catch speeding burglars?
BL are subsidised. I remember all the arguments about how much British taxpayers money BMW got when they took over. Or when the present lot took over. Exactly the same now someone else is trying. Just a question of how you arrange things.
The question in the end is how far is it worth subsidising and how far does it just make matters worse. We may want a subsidised car company rather than none, but what we really want is one capable of making money. Will this ever happen all the time you keep giving them a subsidy and they never have to face the hard questions.
the government are there to govern, they are not elected to be business managers( of individual companies) that should be left to the companies to be self supportive.
If the business where run properly and gave people what they wanted then the economy would pucker up and the government would not have to keep changing monetary policy all the time and be able to stick to their business plan for the country.
it must be so hard for a management( the government) to try to control something they really don't have control of directly and changes to monetery policy is the only device they have to control markets and we all know how slow and ineffective this can be.
Therefore change has to come from the shop floor( the populace) first to make the governments job easier.
The country is basically a huge business with us all as it's employees so unless we all do our bit then we leave ourselves open to demise.
hardest thing to change is morale, this can be done short term by incentives such as tax cuts but this in itself causes more long term problems.
Sometimes you have to live through hard times to reap the benefit in the future, so less greed now means more stability for the future.
If the business where run properly and gave people what they wanted then the economy would pucker up and the government would not have to keep changing monetary policy all the time and be able to stick to their business plan for the country.
it must be so hard for a management( the government) to try to control something they really don't have control of directly and changes to monetery policy is the only device they have to control markets and we all know how slow and ineffective this can be.
Therefore change has to come from the shop floor( the populace) first to make the governments job easier.
The country is basically a huge business with us all as it's employees so unless we all do our bit then we leave ourselves open to demise.
hardest thing to change is morale, this can be done short term by incentives such as tax cuts but this in itself causes more long term problems.
Sometimes you have to live through hard times to reap the benefit in the future, so less greed now means more stability for the future.
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My opinion is (I think) the same as Kendor's:
Any business in this country should be allowed to rise (or fall) on it's own merits. Rover failed - why should be we called unpatriotic for not supporting them?
When I was still driving I bought a French car, despite not being too fond of the French, because I knew it would be more reliable than the English equivalent. It was a simple decision: a Peugeot 405 (later replaced by a Citroen Xantia) or a Rover 200/400 series. I'm glad I chose the former, as the Montego I had a few years earlier was nothing but hassle.
I happened to be self-employed for a bit of last year. The business didn't take off and I hold myself entirely responsible - I didn't put the effort in, in terms of marketing etc. If I had asked the government to bail me out can you imagine the laughter? Just because Rover is a large and well-known company, I don't think we should jump behind them in the name of patriotism, at least not until they buck their ideas up...
Any business in this country should be allowed to rise (or fall) on it's own merits. Rover failed - why should be we called unpatriotic for not supporting them?
When I was still driving I bought a French car, despite not being too fond of the French, because I knew it would be more reliable than the English equivalent. It was a simple decision: a Peugeot 405 (later replaced by a Citroen Xantia) or a Rover 200/400 series. I'm glad I chose the former, as the Montego I had a few years earlier was nothing but hassle.
I happened to be self-employed for a bit of last year. The business didn't take off and I hold myself entirely responsible - I didn't put the effort in, in terms of marketing etc. If I had asked the government to bail me out can you imagine the laughter? Just because Rover is a large and well-known company, I don't think we should jump behind them in the name of patriotism, at least not until they buck their ideas up...
Wasn't BMW spending about a billion pounds a year trying to rescue BL? When they decided they would more likely go broke than get the company profitable they basically gave it away. Looked at like that it is amazing it has staggered on for a bit longer. Looked at like that it will be a pretty good result if any of the company or its suppliers has managed to use the time to find business elsewhere.
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david and julie
I don't understand this reply at all kendor. The grace period you refer to is being blatantly ignored by some of the other memberstates. You don't need me to point this out just watch the telly and you will see for yourself. The other memberstates, who still produce vehicles, have a hidden policy of buying their own products. No doubt this policy extends to things we don't see too. They are clearly only members for their own good and are not acting in the spirit of the EU by wording their tender specs to suit home grown products. We should do the same.kendor said:
Are you really saying the electorate should only vote for EU friendly Gov's to speed up this experiment? What about the millions of people like me who never had a say and don't want the EU?
Do you mean the likes of Neil Kinnock here? has he truthfully ever had a proper job? has he ever worked in industry or commerce? The EU/UK experiment has been going for over 30 years now,at what point do they admit it is a failure?
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david and julie
Your not comparing like with like here though are you ninebob. Rover 200/400 comparison would be the Xsara or 307. The (ancient and rough)405 or (complex and costly to repair)Xantia is more comparable to a Rover 75, and neither of them are remotely in the same league as the Rover. It is just so much better in every area including reliabilty. I can only presume you are letting your (truthful) view of the old BL cars influence your opinion. I would be really suprised if after driving a Rover 75 you still held the same view.They are really nice, but not so trendy, cars.
My two Spridgets and 'real' Cooper S were as reliable as the Nissans I have owned (Retain 'pukka' loose leaf, Workshop manuals for both), the former late 60's to late 70's, the latter since '89 (and driven more sensibly) all ultra reliable ....
Surely someone will buy up the current MG ... £50Mil should do it. ... I wonder what happens regarding spares and warranties if manufacture ceases totally ?
It certainly appears that encouraging the Japanese to build cars here is the way to protect Brit jobs, they seem to look far and build the future .... Not just asset strip.... ah so !!
Surely someone will buy up the current MG ... £50Mil should do it. ... I wonder what happens regarding spares and warranties if manufacture ceases totally ?
It certainly appears that encouraging the Japanese to build cars here is the way to protect Brit jobs, they seem to look far and build the future .... Not just asset strip.... ah so !!
Damocles, it has not been BL for almost two decades, and Tax Payers Money did not sweeten the pot for the management buy out when there was the split with BMW, the money all went to BMW and not a penny to Rover. This is actually some of the reason why they lacked the funds to invest in the business.
Honda were marketing one of their cars in Japan, on virtue that it was built in Britain... that was about 5-10 years ago. They obviously rate our car-building, why don't we?
As someone was saying about the EU public-owned vehicles: go to Paris, and walk around near government buildings. Renault Vel Satis everywhere. I've seen 2 in the UK! I saw a line of at least 20 identical ones outside a government building in Paris!
In Italy, the police drive mainly Lancias.
The British police only really stopped buying British when Volvo brought out the T-5. That replaced their Cosworths and Rover SD1's. Perhaps Rover should have produced a V8-powered 800 estate?
Who would be in favour of renationalising the British motor industry but under an iron fist this time, in principle at least?
They obviously rate our car-building, why don't we?As someone was saying about the EU public-owned vehicles: go to Paris, and walk around near government buildings. Renault Vel Satis everywhere. I've seen 2 in the UK! I saw a line of at least 20 identical ones outside a government building in Paris!
In Italy, the police drive mainly Lancias.
The British police only really stopped buying British when Volvo brought out the T-5. That replaced their Cosworths and Rover SD1's. Perhaps Rover should have produced a V8-powered 800 estate?
Who would be in favour of renationalising the British motor industry but under an iron fist this time, in principle at least?
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2scoops0406
securespark said:
WRT BMW I understand what you are saying, but that sounds like good business sense to me.
I dunno, the UK was the largest BMW market outside of Germany at the time... they were making an assumption that the British people would follow protocol by moaning but not really doing much. Their assumption was pretty much spot on, we still buy loads of BMWs.
Although our local BMW dealer had several smashed windscreens the day after they announced their intention to strip Rover's assests and shut it down.
Although our local BMW dealer had several smashed windscreens the day after they announced their intention to strip Rover's assests and shut it down.
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