GU10 LED 'halogen' replacements

[DyerMaker]

Hey all...

I've been using these for quite a few years now.

They don't seem to last as long as I would expect LED's to last. A year... 18 months maybe.

Here's the thing:

Am I right in thinking LED's only run on DC?

Therefore... there's a tiny transformer inside the bulbs, is that how it works?

If so... I'm not surprised they fail!

Thinking I'd be better off getting a decent 12VDC transformer and running 12V DC GU10 bulbs.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[ericmark]

Yes a LED is a DC current dependent device, and needs to be controlled by a driver which limit the current it uses, and to work with an AC supply it will need some rectifier, and smoothing device, but the way it does this varies LED to LED package.

It can be really simple shows both sides of a failed bulb, the dark spot shows where a LED has failed and it would seem in this case a small chip did the current control, some use a simple capacitor, but others are far more complex this one
has a number of boards again a GU10 this one a smart colour changing one, also failed. Clearly since showing pictures of failed bulbs I have also had bulbs fail, but not that many considering I moved over to LED some 8 years ago, and the pair to second one shown is still working some 2 years latter.

I did open one and found the fault a dry joint, fixed and went back into service, but did not open it with intension of repairing it, just wanted to see what was inside.

An electronic device fed by a wire wound transformer is unlikely to have problems with spikes on the supply, the transformer rectifier and smoothing capacitors are likely to remove and surges, but when the electronics correct directly to the mains supply, spikes and surges can clearly reduce their life, hence why today we fit SPD (surge protection device) in the consumer unit.

Also electronic components specially electronic capacitors seen here are damaged with heat, and so a 7 watt GU10 is far more likely to fail to a 3.5 watt GU10 as it will produce more heat, even using with base down to base up will change how much heat.

However I use to have a draw full of bulbs so I could renew them quickly when they failed, I really need to dump the bulbs now, as failure is so rare, unlikely to now use the tungsten and CFL types, even if they are still unused and in their packets.

In the days of tungsten every other week a bulb some where in the house would fail, but would think now down to once every 6 months I change a failed bulb, I can see my supply yes a little on the high side, over 230 volt but not exceeding the 252 volt limit, and I have two SPD fitted, easy for me to check voltage as I have solar panels, which also log when the voltage goes out of spec. In the main when the system has been switched off for some maintenance, so I know if due to over voltage, but without the solar panels I would have no idea if there was a problem with the supply. Last report was when smart meter fitted.

So have you got SPD fitted?

 

[blup]

Hey all...

I've been using these for quite a few years now.

They don't seem to last as long as I would expect LED's to last. A year... 18 months maybe.

Here's the thing:

Am I right in thinking LED's only run on DC?

Therefore... there's a tiny transformer inside the bulbs, is that how it works?

If so... I'm not surprised they fail!

Thinking I'd be better off getting a decent 12VDC transformer and running 12V DC GU10 bulbs.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Up to you but my transformed 12 volt bulbs failed regularly so I stripped out the transformers and put in led gu10’s. When they did fail i found it was because they used to overheat in the joists where space was restricted

 

[DyerMaker]

Thanks for the advice. My consumer unit is donkey's years old, so probably no SPD? Maybe that's the reason I get through so many bulbs.

Would I be right in assuming all new units would have SPD as standard, or is it something you specifically have to get?
Was just looking on screwfix, and this looks like the sort of thing:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...tegrity-dual-rcd-consumer-unit-with-spd/208kr

Oddly, when I change my location to Ireland though... I don't get anything that specifically says it has SPD, rather I get this sort of thing:
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/garo-g13b-7a-13-module-7-way-populated-dual-rcd-consumer-unit/842pg

 

[DyerMaker]

Up to you but my transformed 12 volt bulbs failed regularly so I stripped out the transformers and put in led gu10’s. When they did fail i found it was because they used to overheat in the joists where space was restricted

hmm... yeah wouldn't be surprised if overheating is an issue. The bulbs are in a couple of fittings that have three globe-shaped metal receptacles - a perfect upside-down 'cauldron' for building up heat!

 

[Rodders53]

GU10 led lamps here were mostly installed by previous owner and thus date from 2016 or earlier. All in ceilings and covered in insulation.

We have had a few fail and have replaced them but not many compared to the number in use... Which reminds me one in family bathroom is on its way out (goes dim but often reverts to full brightness). Must check my spares stock.

Dunno the brands installed, here ... but that may have a relevance. I'd doubt that a SPD will make any difference to your issue. Check the GU10 lampholder contacts for damage/high resistance/overheating signs?

 

[ericmark]

I'd doubt that a SPD will make any difference to your issue.

That is possible true, there is no real way to know.

Would I be right in assuming all new units would have SPD as standard, or is it something you specifically have to get?

In UK the reverse, unless you say you don't want them, they should be fitted, but lack of them does not cause a danger so the home own can say they don't want them.

As to the DIY sheds, they do seem to sell obsolete equipment. There is nothing to say one must now use RCBO's you can use RCD's but the RCD needs to be rated so it will not carry over it's rated valve, so in the UK we have 60, 80, or 100 amp supplies, so with a 60 amp supply one could use 63 amp RCD's or when the combined rating of the MCB's connected to the RCD does not exceed the RCD rating.

With the use of solar and EV's we are seeing homes being supplied with 100 amp, and we need to ensure when combined with the solar the isolator or RCD can not be overloaded, this may with solar require a consumers fuse as will as the DNO fuse.

However fitting a consumer unit in the UK is notifiable, so not really a DIY subject, the BS7671 that we follow is the same for industrial and domestic, so there are some grey areas where people have tried in the past to read into the regulations what they want them to say, however a domestic electrician has to be a scheme member, in theroy one can notify direct to LABC, but in practice that is a rather expensive route, so the scheme members have to do what the scheme providers say, so however one tries to miss read the regulations if the scheme provider say must use RCBO's then you have to conform. I am not a scheme member so not privy to the instructions given.

I am still using an old 2008 copy of BS7671 however have read the trade papers so am aware there are changes, but can't look those changes up.

Most the changes are due to CENELEC Harmonisation Documents changes, so likely similar in Ireland, but things like our plugs and sockets and ring finals are a British thing so not all things with relate to Ireland.

I was under the impression Ireland was actually stricter than UK on what work a non electrician can do?

 

[Murdochcat]

Changing a CU when you are experiencing bulb failures is a bit extreme to say the least.

There are lots of cheap and nasty bulbs available so I would suggest your first stop should be to replace the failed ones with branded products.

And next get a check done on the connections to the light fittings. Switches and possibly within the CU

As for replacing a cu no decent spark fits a dual RCD board any more. RCBO with SPD is the way to go

 

[DyerMaker]

Changing a CU when you are experiencing bulb failures is a bit extreme to say the least.

Ha! yes it would be... except I'm in need of a new CU anyway.