Half-landing ok?

[Johnboy54]

Hello to all.
I'm moving the stairs in an old house I've bought.
I've worked out I need a minimum base length of 9' 2" to achieve a slope of 42 degrees.
The only way I can do this is to pinch 9" from the landing.
I've attached a drawing which may illustrate this. (double click to increase size)

//www.diynot.com/network/Johnboy54/albums/2764

Is this acceptable?
If so, does the small section of the exposed top step need a short handrail?
Thank you.
John

 

[Richard C]

Building regulations require the depth of the landing to be at least equal to the minimum width of the stairs so, no, it isn't OK. Here’s a link to the BR’s;
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADK_1998.pdf

See 1.5

 

[Johnboy54]

Hello Richard.
Thanks for the reply.
Good info on that link so I've saved it, thanks.
So, what do you reckon about my revised drawing?
Does that satisfy the regs do you think?

//www.diynot.com/network/Johnboy54/albums/

thanks again.
John

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I don't know, I've never seen a landing drawn like that tbh, what pitch/going/rise do you end up with if you take a rise out? The regs are a guide and can be bent if justified. Just because something techincally complies does not neccessarrily mean its any good in fact I think its quite dangerous especially if going from the top right door to the bottom left one.

 

[Richard C]

That’s still not acceptable; you can't have part of the landing overhanging the stairs as it represents a significant hazard for folks turning left out of the bedroom door & disappearing down them! Can you not gain some space at the bottom? From my industrial installation days, I seem to remember that you could make the riser on bottom tread less than the rest but I don’t know if this applies to residential, you need to check. If you can’t gain any more space at the bottom, I think your going to have to nick a bit more space from that bedroom to get the landing at minimum width.

As a point of interest, what are you doing, it sounds like fairly significant work that should be subject to notification & Building Inspection

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

That’s still not acceptable; you can't have part of the landing overhanging the stairs as it represents a significant hazard for folks turning left out of the bedroom door & disappearing down them!

No, that bit does actually comply.

From my industrial installation days, I seem to remember that you could make the riser on bottom tread less than the rest but I don’t know if this applies to residential, you need to check.

Unfortunately that does not comply, it would be safer for every rise to be slightly higher but identical.

If you can’t gain any more space at the bottom, I think your going to have to nick a bit more space from that bedroom to get the landing at minimum width.

I agree this is undoubtedly the safest solution if its possible.

 

[Johnboy54]

Thanks to both of you for the replies.
It's all going through planning/building regs and an architect.
The architect hasn't worked out the stairs, but he says he thinks it may fit.
The whole design of the upstairs hinges on this!
I've spent ages working it out, which isn't really part of the architects remit.
The wall at the top of the stairs is nearly 2 feet thick!
It's solid sandstone, but has a fairly large opening there, which is how I came to be able to move the door back in the second drawing.
The bottom of the stairs is as near as I can get to the front door when opened.
I got the rise and going from an online calculator. It wouldn't let me have a stairs with the original base length, so I increased it by moving them nearer the front door and pinching 9 inch from the landing.
I found a trigonometry calculator and put in 8' ceiling height and 42 degrees. That gave me the base of 9' 2", which goes into the landing.
Using the base I have of 8' 6" and a height of 8', I get an angle of 43.18 degrees.
I'm intrigued by the 'bending' of rules though!
Do you think this angle would be acceptable?
Thanks to both of you once again.
John.
PS. I'm too old for metric, does it show?

 

[Richard C]

It's all going through planning/building regs and an architect.
The architect hasn't worked out the stairs, but he says he thinks it may fit.
The whole design of the upstairs hinges on this!
I've spent ages working it out, which isn't really part of the architects remit.

You seem to be doing the right things & on a learning curve but why on earth is the design of a critical staircase not part of the Architects remit? If I was employing an Architect (overrated for most residential projects) I would certainly expect him to be doing the running & making decisions on a staircase design that was critical to the viability of the project!

Have you looked at the BR requirements on the link I posted rather than use an on line calculator; the scope for riser & going ratios is fairly generous, are you sure you cannot adjust these to suit. There is an alternative approach referring to BS 5395 but I’ve no idea if that will help. Assuning your working to a min 400mm between the front door & the first riser, the lower landing would be greater than the width of the stairs (assuming 800-900mm); would an outward opening from door help as then you would only need the actual width of the stairs!

 

[Johnboy54]

Ok, brain frying nicely now.
I can get the risers and goings within the regs.
But, I still can't get past the fact I've essentially got 2 sides of a triangle the same length, making a 45 deg angle.
No matter how I look at altering risers etc, I'm still going to have the 45 deg angle.
The architect came with the job from the seller. He designed things which I've altered.
I'm moving the stairs. As you know, to do this via the architect will cost even more money!
I don't fancy the idea of the front door opening outwards.
Looks like I'm left with moving the stairs somewhere else.
Can I build them on wheels?
Any regs on rope ladders?
Thanks for your help to both of you.
John.