Has the boiler fitter bypassed our water softener???

[ShortyK]

Hey folks, we had a new combi boiler fitted about 3 weeks ago - the existing boiler was an old gravity based one in the garage, and it was replaced with a combi - all pipes were available except hot water - so they went into the cloakroom (in pic you can see the pipe that has been recently filled around) to get a hot feed.

I've noticed since then, the water softener salt is not going down... So would I be right to say they have bypassed our softener? Not really ideal as I wasn't told about that - I know it's not the newest softener but it worked!

Both the white levers are turned to Open/Soft and the brass tap in the middle is fully open to the left (anti-clockwise).
The boiler is pretty much to the left of where the picture is taken from.

Would appreciate any advice before I go back to them to check, thanks in advance!

 

[gas112]

Some manufacturers do not recommend softened water for their combi `s

 

[Exedon]

As above check combi manufacturers instructions.
Going by the hose union tap it looks like new cold connection was made on incoming supply to softener rather than softened side.
If you can use softened water in your combi needs pipework altering. I'd be swapping those small flexi hoses for larger ones (connections are the same)

 

[avonmouth]

Some manufacturers do not recommend softened water for their combi `s

most do and they're pretty harmless.

 

[Rodders53]

Brass stop tap if fully open is allowing mains water to by-pass rather than push the water through the softener. Close it to ensure softener works? It's there to allow the softener to be isolated for repair / maintenance purposes but still allow the house to have water to use.

What make and model of boiler has been installed? Check the manufacturers' instructions for any mention of softened water use (in domestic hot water and/or sealed central heating circulation).

 

[ShortyK]

Ahh - So I may need to close that tap instead! It's a WB 4000 30kW Combi

 

[Rodders53]

Ahh - So I may need to close that tap instead! It's a WB 4000 30kW Combi

Greenstar 4000 Combi Installation Manual | Worcester Bosch

central heating boilers, combi boilers, gas boilers, oil boilers, gas central heating, heating engineers, boiler installation, boiler repair

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk

page 12
Mentions that artificially softened (ion exchange) water must not be used to fill the central heating circuit - that with inhibitor in. {Much as my hot tub says to fill with tap water}
The MIs suggest ways to provide the boiler filling loop with un-softened water.

Depends on what your installer has done.

Worth calling to ask if they had temporarily bypassed for filling the boiler... and forgot to re-close the tap, or????

 

[ShortyK]

They did say they would bypass it to fill the boiler - as you say they likely then forgot to re-close it - I am pretty sure last time I closed that tap we had no water in the house but i'll double check tonight!

 

[gas112]

most do and they're pretty harmless.

see rodders post . As i said some manufacturers do not recommend it

 

[JohnD]

A lot of older plumbers think that water softeners should not be used with boilers.

Luckily, a scientific test was carried out, and the report is freely available.

 

[gas112]

A lot of older plumbers think that water softeners should not be used with boilers.

Luckily, a scientific test was carried out, and the report is freely available.

yep the biggest boiler manufacturer in UK needs to take advice from JOHND and older plumbers need to stop adhering to manufacturers instructions on how to fit their boilers despite this voiding warranties.
.
oh look here is ideal also saying the same .
.
.
5 water treatment Central Heating The Logic + Combi range of boilers have an aluminium alloy heat exchanger .Important. The application of any other treatment to this product may render the guarantee of Ideal Stelrad Group Invalid .Ideal Stelrad Group recommend Water Treatment in accordance with the Benchmark Guidance Notes on Water Treatment in Central Heating Systems.If water treatment is used Ideal Stelrad Group recommend only the use of Scalemaster Gold 100, Fernox, MBI or SentinelX100 inhibitors and associated water treatment products, which must be used in accordance with the manufacturers’ instructions. Notes.
1. It is most important that the correct concentration of the water treatment products is maintained in accordance with themanufacturers’ instructions.

2. If the boiler is installed in an existing system any unsuitable additives MUST be removed by thorough cleansing. BS7593:2006 details the steps necessary to clean a domestic heating system.

3. In hard water areas, treatment to prevent lime scale may be necessary - HOWEVER THE USE OF ARTIFICALLY SOFTENED WATER IS NOT PERMITTED .

4. Under no circumstances should the boiler be fired before the system has been thoroughly flushed.

Domestic Hot wate rIn hard water areas where mains water can exceed 200ppmTotal Hardness (as defined by BS 7593:2006 Table 2) a scale reducing device should be fitted into the boiler cold supplywithin the requirements of the local water company.

THE USE OF ARTIFICIALY SOFTENED WATER HOWEVER IS NOT PERMITED .

Ideal Stelrad Group recommend the use of Fernox Quantomat, Sentinel Combi guard and Calmag CalPhos Iscale reducing devices, together with Scalemaster Inline Scale Inhibitor branded Ideal, which must be used in accordance with the manufacturers’ instructions.


OH look BAXI to

Important
Only water that has NOT been artificially softened must be used when filling or re-pressurising the primary system.
If the mains cold water to the property is fitted with an artificial softening/treatment device the source utilised to fill or
re-pressurise the system must be upstream of such a device.

So the 3 biggest manufacturers in the UK say DO NOT use it

 

[dilalio]

If the top pipe (where there is a new tee off) is the cold mains to the water softener, and that new tee feeds cold mains to the boiler, then this branch is not softened, meaning that your hot water is not softened.

It needs to be determined if the combi allows the use of softened water for the domestic hot water, even if it doesn't allow it for filling the primary system for CH.

They are 2 different things.
If the cold supply for the boiler is softened and the boiler has in integral filling loop then, usually, the water softener has to be put into bypass mode when filling the CH system and boiler.