Have they crossed the line?

[misterhelpful]

Hey all,

I'm hoping someone here can answer a couple of questions for me please.

I live in a terraced house which has stone boundary walls in the garden, 3'-4' high and over 15" wide.
I erected a fence on my sides of the walls a few years back, and no sooner had I done this, one of my neighbours removed the wall for which they are responsible. The wall was solid, and the only reason they did this was to site a shed on the area where the wall was, without it fouling their back gate.
They did build a new 4" block wall, but on my side of the centre line of the old wall, which effectively gave them another 1' of garden. There is no dispute with my neighbours, we are good friends and the issue doesn't really worry me, but I can't help wondering:

1. Were they allowed to do this?
2. If either of us were to sell our houses in future, would there be an issue as to who is responsible for the new wall, as it now appears to be on 'my side' of the boundary?

 

[studips]

people build on the boundary all the time, but it's wrong - if they rebuilt a wall on your land, you are entitled to ask them to move it.

when selling it is unlikely to cause an issue as how will anyone know the boundaries are in the wrong place?

 

[mattylad]

AFAIK you cannot prove where the boundary is to 1".

You fenced your land in.

 

[misterhelpful]

AFAIK you cannot prove where the boundary is to 1".

You fenced your land in.

There is actually a single skin brick partition between the old outside toilets which was tied in to the centre line of the stone wall. This is obviously the boundary and they have built the block wall on my side of that. (I should have mentioned that in OP!)

I don't think putting a fence up on my side of a wall constitutes fencing my land in, does it?
If that is the case, had I put the fence 2' inside the old wall, then they would theoretically be able to claim that land, which is obviously not theirs!!

 

[jeds]

AFAIK you cannot prove where the boundary is to 1".

You fenced your land in.

had I put the fence 2' inside the old wall, then they would theoretically be able to claim that land, which is obviously not theirs!!

Not quite. In theory your neighbour could claim the land but they must have possessed it and maintained it for the minimum periods of time. And even then it would not be straightforward, especially if it's registered land.

What is true though is that is is very difficult, if not imposible, to prove the exact lines of boundaries. Courts take a very dim view of claims over inches of land and often award claimants the land but award costs against. In most cases the costs are worth a lot more than the land.

In cases like this is is important not to lose contact with small strips of land. You are best keeping records of what was built, when it was built and where and who paid for it. Photos are always useful. As soon as a neighbour moves in you must take action immediately to re-establish your ownership before they have a chance to start thinking a strip of land is theirs.

 

[misterhelpful]

Cheers Guys.

As stated in my original post, they haven't actually gained any ground on my side of the old boundary wall, just the 1' or so that the wall was originally built on.

I was led to believe that if you build a new wall, it should be inside your own half of the boundary rather than your neighbours' side - mainly because a friend was building a garage wall ON their boundary and were told to move it to their side by Building Regs. (That might be a different scenario though )

Like I said, not really bothered by it but just trying to get some clarification.

 

[^woody^]

my neighbours removed the wall for which they are responsible

Which implies that the boundary was on the outer side of the wall and not down the centre, so the boundary has not changed and no one has lost or gained land

 

[misterhelpful]

Which implies that the boundary was on the outer side of the wall and not down the centre, so the boundary has not changed and no one has lost or gained land

Which is pretty much along the lines I was thinking.

Just as long as some new owners, 10 years down the line, don't say it's mine!

 

[nute]

You can build a new boundary wall which straddles the boundary, but only after serving a notice under the PWA to which your neighbour has the right to object. You have a right to take down and rebuild an existing wall on the boundary.

If you build a wall on your land right up to the boundary you do have the right to put the toe of any simple concrete footings on your neighbours land.

If someone else encloses upon your land and denies you the right to use it ( so they are said to have taken adverse possession) they can acquire permanent prescriptive rights to it ( think they need to do so for 10/11 years before acquiring such rights)

 

[^woody^]

You can build a new boundary wall which straddles the boundary, but only after serving a notice under the PWA

... they can acquire permanent prescriptive rights to it ( think they need to do so for 10/11 years before acquiring such rights)

No one can build on anyone else's land even if a PW notice is served. The PW Act only gives rights to put unreinforced foundations astride a boundary

The rules on adverse possession changed several years ago and there is now no automatic acquisition of land title after 12 years

 

[nute]

[/quote]No one can build on anyone else's land even if a PW notice is served. The PW Act only gives rights to put unreinforced foundations astride a boundary

...hence why i said the neighbour can object

If the neighbour dosent object the wall can go astride the boundary

 

[misterhelpful]

You can build a new boundary wall which straddles the boundary,...

So judging by my previous post (single skin brick wall tied in to centre of the original stone wall), do you think that the old wall actually straddled the boundary?

 

[nute]

Establishing the exact position of a boundary to within inches can be a nightmare. Is your land registered with the LR? Have you got a plan which is to a large scale/has dimensions which would help? On the face of it if the position of the old wall extends from the line of junction between the two properties it seems that it should be astride the boundary but there are no guarantees, all sorts of quirky things happen with boundaries.

...and for what it's worth it is still possible to acquire prescriptive rights, the LR Act 02 amended the way in which this happens depending on whether the land is registered but it is still possible.

 

[misterhelpful]

Have you got a plan which is to a large scale/has dimensions which would help?

All paperwork, deeds etc safely tucked away in the bank. Seem to remember the original plot prints (c.1903) with measurements for the whole block on them being there - will have to take a look one day.

As said, I haven't actually lost ground but neighbours have effectively gained.

I hate technicalities (unless I happen to be in court!)

Thanks for the input.

 

[^woody^]

...hence why i said the neighbour can object

If the neighbour dosent object the wall can go astride the boundary

No. Don't confuse the PWA with normal property law

A person owns the land within his boundaries and the PWA does not give rights to build on that land.

Agreement under the PWA is not agreement to build on land which the building owner does not own