have to use key when shutting new composite door

[ragj195]

Hi

I've just installed a new door-stop composite door. Everything went fine until I realised that when you shut the door from the outside, you can simply pull the handle to open it again without using the key. The old UPVC door would shut and pulling the handle down from the outside wouldn't open the door. You had to use the key. Whereas the new door can be openned from the outside unless I remember to lock the door with the key every time I leave the house.

I compared the handle and spindle on the old and new door. The old door had two spindles going through it and neither spindle went all the way through to the opposite handle. The outside handle had a spindle that went into the lower part of the locking mechanism. Pulling up on the handle would engage the lock but pulling down wouldn't do anything hence why you couldn't get in without the key.

The new handles are Fab Fix and there is one spindle that pairs up the handles in the upper opening of the locking mechanism. It looks like I need the outside handle to have a fitting for the spindle slightly lower so the spindle goes into the lower part of the locking mechanism but I'm not sure what to search for online as all handles seem to be in pairs with one spindle.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Gazman16]

Assuming the lock mech has the 2 spindle hole you just need a pair of "Lever/Pad handles".

 

[crank39]

Googling 'split spindle' or 'split follower' will give you all the info you need, basically the spindle is in 2 pieces so that in and out operate independently of each other but for this the be the case the square bit in the mechanism (the follwer) where the spindle goes through also needs to be in 2 pieces, take your handle off and inspect the inner 4 edges of that follower, if its split you should see a hair line join on all 4 sides in which case you can just buy a split spindle and swap out with your solid one piece jobby.

A mechanism with 2 spindle holes does exactly the same thing but with 2 spindles which are at 2 different heights from each other with one lever being lower than the other, in both cases it will depend on whether you have a compatible locking mechanism that supports the split spindle facility

It would be best just to speak with your supplier and ask them for the parts required to convert your door to split spindle

 

[ragj195]

Thanks for the replies! Now I know what I need to search for. The mechanism does have separate spindle holes and I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing. I'll find a pad that supports a separate lower spindle so that pushing up on the pad engages the lock.

 

[crank39]

I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing.

That's OK for a temp solution but how are you gonna lock the door now from the outside until you effect the permanent solution?

 

[ragj195]

I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing.

That's OK for a temp solution but how are you gonna lock the door now from the outside until you effect the permanent solution?

This may sound bad but we never locked the door before. We just shut it on it's latch and assumed that was secure enough because you couldn't get back in without using the key. Having read about how burglars can get through the letter box to lower the handle from the inside it's probably not ideal!

 

[crank39]

I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing.

That's OK for a temp solution but how are you gonna lock the door now from the outside until you effect the permanent solution?

This may sound bad but we never locked the door before. We just shut it on it's latch and assumed that was secure enough because you couldn't get back in without using the key.

OK that would of been for your PVC door as you've already told us that was a lever/pad set up but your new composite door isn't so now that your outer handle won't engage the hooks how do you propose to lock the door when you go out? Unless someone always stays in or you leave by a different exit door?

 

[ragj195]

I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing.

That's OK for a temp solution but how are you gonna lock the door now from the outside until you effect the permanent solution?

This may sound bad but we never locked the door before. We just shut it on it's latch and assumed that was secure enough because you couldn't get back in without using the key.

OK that would of been for your PVC door as you've already told us that was a lever/pad set up but your new composite door isn't so now that your outer handle won't engage the hooks how do you propose to lock the door when you go out? Unless someone always stays in or you leave by a different exit door?

Currently I can't lock it with the multi point locks from the outside but it closes on the latch and because the outside handle doesn't have a spindle you can't get back in unless you insert the key into the cylinder to disengage the latch. I've found the split spindle/offset version of the handles supplied with the door "Fab & Fix Balmoral Lever/Offset Lever". I'll order a pair now.

 

[crank39]

Ah cool, so long as you were aware that you couldn't engage the hooks, had visions of you going to work tomorrow and unable to lock your door lol!

 

[ragj195]

No it's fine. Thanks for your help. It's probably made me realise that closing it on the latch isn't really secure enough.

 

[Gazman16]

I've fudged it for now by cutting the single spindle so that it's only engaged by the inside handle meaning the outside handle does nothing.

That's OK for a temp solution but how are you gonna lock the door now from the outside until you effect the permanent solution?

This may sound bad but we never locked the door before. We just shut it on it's latch and assumed that was secure enough because you couldn't get back in without using the key. Having read about how burglars can get through the letter box to lower the handle from the inside it's probably not ideal!

Bare in mind when just on the latch it dosent take much of a kick or shoulder barge to open it and your insurance company wont pay out for anything. Im not a fan of lever/pad setup as it promotes laziness in not correctly locking the door.
It can also invalidate the guarantee on the door itself as they state that multi point locking should always be engaged when shut (not necessarily key locked) as it prevents the door from warping.

 

[ragj195]

Even with the new pad we'll start locking it. My wife is the paranoid type and now I've told her how unsecure the door is when leaving it closed on the latch she'll be checking it's locked every hour!