Heating to assist Underfloor in Winter

[nirish]

I'm not sure why a heatwave has got me thinking about heating!??!

I have preciously posted here regarding the underfloor system not fully heating our garage conversion, I've exhausted all possibilities to improve this and am now looking to add another heat source to the room. It's a double height vaulted double garage conversion. Options are:

1. Plum in a large radiator from existing house which will run in the mornings bringing up the temp from overnight before underfloor hopefully maintains it.

2. Have a radiator plumbed in from underfloor return, less pipework required but rad will be cooler and can only run when underfloor is.

3. Wildcard is Infrared heating, this really interests me as the heat is less likely to rise into the vaulted ceiling, no plumbing required and can be independently switched on and off. Unknowns are how best to position in a large room and how exactly it will feel as it heats objects and people rather than the air.

Any thoughts on what would work alongside the existing underfloor massively appreciated!

 

[cross thread]

Have you considered destrat fans that move the hot air in your vaulted ceiling back down ? If your underfloor is sized correctly and is used as underfloor should it could be worth looking at.

 

[big-all]

just a though
is it fully insulated to building regs requirement
well insulated or something else

 

[ericmark]

2. Have a radiator plumbed in from underfloor return, less pipework required but rad will be cooler and can only run when underfloor is.

I know this was a suggestion with earlier thread, but seems wrong way around, would have thought better on supply side, but depends on how much water runs into the floor from the boiler.

The idea is water is circulated in the floor, so no hot spots or cool spots, as the circulating water cools, more hot water is added. However you have no idea how much hot is added, so no idea how warm any radiator would get fed from the hot water from boiler.

As an electrician I have seen systems where the water goes to a radiator first then the UFH the idea was the TRV and lock shield valve controlled both and it just took the chill off the floor, but only saw it fitted, never returned to house once running.

And that is the problem, seen the UFH fitted in new builds, but never returned when it was in use, and I have never been able to get my head around how it works, as it seems to be the reverse to what we aim for with radiator systems. Whole idea today seems to be only heat when required, with programmable wall thermostats, and even geofencing, so heating off while at work, and comes on just in time to reheat home for your return.

But underfloor heating is a 24/7 thing, takes so long to both heat and cool, you can't really turn it off/on as required. Great for old peoples homes, when heating wanted 24/7, but must be more expensive to run when heating rooms not occupied.

But answers to your questions must depend on the time occupied, inferred in churches works well, boosts heat three times on Sunday, but used 24/7 would be expensive, and assume rooms used 24/7 or would not have fitted UFH to start with?

If there is a life style change so heating not used 24/7 then the question is down to cost, having a rapid heating system installed it is installation cost v savings. It is all well and good saying fit a fan assisted radiator so it can re-heat fast and takes up very little wall space and furniture does not affect it in same way as a non fan assisted, and circulating the air may help any way, but the install cost v saving in running cost is what matters.

So life style is important when selecting heating.

 

[nirish]

just a though
is it fully insulated to building regs requirement
well insulated or something else

I've been through many similar questions on another thread and with my builder. To the best of my knowledge it is insulated to the required standard but with vaulted ceiling, two velux, french doors and three exterior walls the underfloor isn't enough in the depths of winter. The room does lose a lot of temperature overnight and can drop to 15degrees at it's coldest.

@ericmark I agree in retrospect underfloor is more suited to continuous room use although we do use the room virtually every evening and many days as shift workers. The problem is even if runs non-stop in the coldest temps, the room never reaches the desired temp so it's proving expensive and the room is still "fresh". Ideally we need an additional heat source, I've had my concerns about any rad which meddles with the underfloor system so am more likely to add a radiator from existing central heating system or use infra-red. Choosing between the pros and cons of these is proving difficult!

A radiator would boost the air temperature in the morning when the central heating is usually on but whether this would allow the underfloor to get the room up to the required temperature any easier I'm not sure, it may still top out where heat loss is greater than heat provided as it is now.

An infra-red source would be used when we are in the room to feel a little cosier on the days which the underfloor doesn't quite cut the mustard. I'm edging towards this for lifestyle use and ease of installation but am unfamiliar with the technology and how effective it will be when mounted some distance from the sofas.

 

[ericmark]

Using inferred or tungsten bulbs was the traditional method to boost room temperatures in the evening only when used.

However control is a problem, so would think the radiator is better option.

I use eQ-3 TRV heads that work well, can be bluetooth linked if more than one radiator in the room, and can be programmed, plus one button swap eco to comfort, so use UFH as back ground and when you walk in room press button to get comfort mode. Cost me £15 each in 2019, work very well, 2 AA batteries should last 2 years but I change every year, no wiring required. See also Terrier i30 same idea.

 

[nirish]

Thanks @ericmark for the suggestion, however as I'm seeing it the problem wouldn't be turning this new radiator on as and when required .... more so that the central heating through the entire house would have to come on just to activate this one radiator in the evening.

Again this is a positive with infra red rads that it would be totally isolated from any other system.

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Does anyone have personal experience of heating with this technology at home?