Heating too hot - unable to turn it down.

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Apologies as I haven't got all the info and what info I have is secondhand but the MIL's house is nearly always cold - so much so that our kids (her grandkids) have called her 'nanny icebox' for as long as we can remember. About 6 months ago she had a new boiler fitted (don't know what make) and a new room stat - just a cheapy from what I've seen, nothing digital, just a rotating dial one. Anyway, we popped in on Sunday and it was very warm, so much so that Mrs Mottie turned it down and remarked that it was 'clicking off/on' around the 15-17° mark. We weren't there long enough for it to cool down. Mrs Mottie went round today to check on her (poss onset of dementia) and again, it was like a furnace in there. There was another thermostat above the room stat and Mrs Mottie said it was showing 26° But still clicking on/off around the 16° mark. Apparently Mrs Motties sister said that she noticed the hot water was scalding hot too. The MIL has just been switching the boiler off in the cupboard when it got too hot for her! Going to have to get their brother (who arranged the instal) to get the bloke back who fitted the boiler but out of curiosity, what could be causing this?
 
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What's a bunny? If it's a Vaillant like I have, the installer forgot to remove the 24v link and I had those problems on day 1, not after 6 months.

But it may have taken 6 months for you to spot an issue, whereas your MIL didn't.
Yes, a bunny is a faillant.
 
But it may have taken 6 months for you to spot an issue, whereas your MIL didn't.
Yes, a bunny is a faillant.
Other way round. I removed the 24v link myself while waiting for the installer to return the day after installation. The MIL has the onset of dementia and I think she has probably been switching the boiler off from day 1 when it got too hot.
 
Other way round. I removed the 24v link myself while waiting for the installer to return the day after installation. The MIL has the onset of dementia and I think she has probably been switching the boiler off from day 1 when it got too hot.

No. I mean you spotted it on yours.
But she wouldn't have the foggiest and hasn't even raised that there's an issue.
Just check if it's been left in... Bunny or not.
 
Too cold due to wall thermostat fault I can understand, but too hot seems odd, as both the wall thermostat and the TRV would both need to be turned up too high or faulty.

It should not matter if the link was left in, the TRV should stop over heating.

I had it with my late mothers house, I walked in one day and living room at 32°C, three faults, one the wireless thermostat had lost the RF link, the TRV was turned up too high, and the lock shield valve was wide open, plus a bay window that was catching the sun.

I found the lock shield valves were the biggest challenge. Set the TRV at 2¼ and at 22°C the feed pipe to radiator was cold, but radiator was already stinking hot, so still warming the room.

I turned off the lock shield, allowed pipes to cool, then back on ¼ at a time, and as soon as some heat felt, stopped, and this was repeated with all radiators. This improved things but not right. What I found was if I trimmed all the lock shield valves not only the living room one, the boiler (In my case Worcester Bosch) started to modulate, so the water was not as hot to start with, but still some hysteresis in the control.

Having had a wireless thermostat fail, seemed better not to rely on them, so I bought a pair of Energenie MiHome electronic heads, IMGP8035.jpg hind sight not the best make, but two things, one the computer display TRV_report.jpg showed both target and current, so if current exceeds target close the lock shield a tad, and they worked well so got a second pair, and the other thing was, from my house I could see what temperature her rooms were.

When she died the new owners did not want the electronic TRV heads, so swapped back, now the lock shields set, I found the mechanical TRV heads worked very well. Wanted better control in this house and Energenie seemed expensive so used cheaper EQ-3 Bluetooth Smart Radiator Thermostat.jpg eQ-3 bluetooth versions before brexit were £15 each. They only show target, so not as easy to set lock shield valves.
 
No TRV's fitted in lounge where room stat is - you shouldn't anyway, should you?
That is debatable. There are two types of thermostat, those to stop boiler cycling, and those which control room temperature, with a modulating boiler to control room temperature you need a modulating thermostat which connects to the boiler ebus, OpenTherm is a good example, as every time the boiler is turned off by external controls, all heat in the boiler goes out of the flue, and when turns back on again it does so at full output, with my boiler it takes around 20 minutes from turning on to getting warm water back, so to allow the boiler to modulate with an on/off control it needs to run for at least an hour before turning off again, or when it turns off it is still at high output so more heat lost when it turns off.

The books say on/off thermostat is put in a room normally kept cool, on ground floor, with no alternative heating or outside doors, non of my homes have had such a room, so some compromise is required. The idea of the on/off thermostat is to stop boiler cycling, the TRV can control each room, but unless wifi connected to a controller (wall thermostat) it can't tell the boiler when to switch on.

So with a home with no wall thermostat, as the home warms up first the boiler modulates, (turns down) then it starts to cycle off/on, but since boiler doing the control it turns on at a low output, and the off time is slowly increased (anti cycle software) but it can never turn off, as nothing to turn it back on again.

If we fit the on/off thermostat in the hall, every time the front door is opened the hall will cool, if we open the lock shield valve to compensate, then hall heats up too fast, so rest of house gets cold, so we combine the lock shield, TRV and wall thermostat, the TRV is set to start to close around 2°C before the wall thermostat setting, which is low anyway so on a warm day the central heating does not run, so the scenario is:-

Front door opened, hall cools, TRV opens up wide, the radiator starts to reheat room and then the TRV starts to close so heating rate is reduced before the wall thermostat is triggered, in fact the wall thermostat only turns off on warmer days, the boiler simply modulates on cooler days.

So basic thing is you don't fit an on/off thermostat in the room kept warm, as when summer arrives the room will heat up in the morning, then when sun comes out over heat due to sun, so the on/off thermostat is fitted in a cooler room, so when summer arrives it will not turn heating on when likely to be a warm day.

However with the smart thermostat it can be connected to the internet and use the weather reports to decide when not to turn on, so can't say never fit in main room. What is needed is to assess each home on its own merits, things like bay windows and conservatories can mean the sun can cause a massive temperature raise, and there is of course the human machine interface method of control, or the off switch.

But like you I read all the books which said do not fit a TRV in same room as main wall thermostat, likely written before the modulating boiler was invented, but when I did fit a TRV it transformed the heating. Having done it and it worked, I can say in some cases having a TRV and wall on/off thermostat in the same room works. What I can't say is if it would work for you.
 
As per others need to know make/model of boiler, type as in Combi/non-Combi, zone valves, possibility that the previous room stat has been left connected?
 
That is debatable. There are two types of thermostat, those to stop boiler cycling, and those which control room temperature, with a modulating boiler to control room temperature you need a modulating thermostat which connects to the boiler ebus, OpenTherm is a good example, as every time the boiler is turned off by external controls, all heat in the boiler goes out of the flue, and when turns back on again it does so at full output, with my boiler it takes around 20 minutes from turning on to getting warm water back, so to allow the boiler to modulate with an on/off control it needs to run for at least an hour before turning off again, or when it turns off it is still at high output so more heat lost when it turns off.

The books say on/off thermostat is put in a room normally kept cool, on ground floor, with no alternative heating or outside doors, non of my homes have had such a room, so some compromise is required. The idea of the on/off thermostat is to stop boiler cycling, the TRV can control each room, but unless wifi connected to a controller (wall thermostat) it can't tell the boiler when to switch on.

So with a home with no wall thermostat, as the home warms up first the boiler modulates, (turns down) then it starts to cycle off/on, but since boiler doing the control it turns on at a low output, and the off time is slowly increased (anti cycle software) but it can never turn off, as nothing to turn it back on again.

If we fit the on/off thermostat in the hall, every time the front door is opened the hall will cool, if we open the lock shield valve to compensate, then hall heats up too fast, so rest of house gets cold, so we combine the lock shield, TRV and wall thermostat, the TRV is set to start to close around 2°C before the wall thermostat setting, which is low anyway so on a warm day the central heating does not run, so the scenario is:-

Front door opened, hall cools, TRV opens up wide, the radiator starts to reheat room and then the TRV starts to close so heating rate is reduced before the wall thermostat is triggered, in fact the wall thermostat only turns off on warmer days, the boiler simply modulates on cooler days.

So basic thing is you don't fit an on/off thermostat in the room kept warm, as when summer arrives the room will heat up in the morning, then when sun comes out over heat due to sun, so the on/off thermostat is fitted in a cooler room, so when summer arrives it will not turn heating on when likely to be a warm day.

However with the smart thermostat it can be connected to the internet and use the weather reports to decide when not to turn on, so can't say never fit in main room. What is needed is to assess each home on its own merits, things like bay windows and conservatories can mean the sun can cause a massive temperature raise, and there is of course the human machine interface method of control, or the off switch.

But like you I read all the books which said do not fit a TRV in same room as main wall thermostat, likely written before the modulating boiler was invented, but when I did fit a TRV it transformed the heating. Having done it and it worked, I can say in some cases having a TRV and wall on/off thermostat in the same room works. What I can't say is if it would work for you.


Unfortunately it’s for a senior citizen with the onset of dementia. She just needs it working with a simple room stat like her old one did.
 
Last edited:
As per others need to know make/model of boiler, type as in Combi/non-Combi, zone valves, possibility that the previous room stat has been left connected?
All I know is it was a boiler replacement, heat only, and a new analogue room stat replaced the old analogue room stat in the same position.

The BIL is going round to check today and if he can’t sort it, he can call the installer back as he arranged the boiler change.
 
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