HELP using water softener on dishwasher and washing machine

[AJVAT]

I am looking to install a mains water softener at my property as i live in a hard water area and my kids have skin condition. I was at John Lewis looking at washing machine and dishwasher when the sales member of staff made me aware that water softener's should not be used on washing machines / dishwashers as they can make them faulty, especially in washing machines as they had recently experienced 4 washing machines becoming faulty as they had created to too much foam and bubbles in the washing machine. The member of staff then advised me that as this was due to the water softener creating the problem it invalidated the warranty.

I would like to know whether anyone else has had problems or knows of this problem. My understanding was the whole idea and concept of water softener is to reduce chalk and limescale build up and that by using a water softener it would do the same job as the calgon tablets that you add to the washing machine.

 

[MJN]

Whilst the end result of a water softener and the use of Calgon tablets may be similar, namely reduced damaged and performance reduction due to limescale deposits, the mechanism and usage by which this is achieved is entirely different. A water softener reduces the deposits from forming in the first place whereas the Calgon tablets remove it afterwards.

The problem with using artificially softened water is that laundry detergents are formulated on the basis that much of the country is typically supplied with relatively hard water and hence, through chemical action, they must be able to still produce sufficient foaming action to adequately clean.

If you feed the machine with softened water then the effectiveness of this sud creation could increase beyond that which is 'safe' for the machine. Soap from softened water is also more difficult to rinse away. You could reduce the amount of detergent you use but you then risk reducing the cleaning capacity due to the similar reduction of other constituent components such as bleaching/brightening agents.

Dishwashers are less susceptible to such ill effects as their performance (washing, drying, streaking, etc) is more sensitive to variations of water hardness and hence employ their own water softeners and usually provide a mechanism to adjust other hard water counter measures by reducing rinse aid dosage etc.

Your best bet would be to consult the user manuals (and/or manufacturers) of the machines you are considering purchasing (or already have) to see what their stance is regarding both performance and warranty issues with the use of chemically softened water. Also, you might want to tap off a non-softened outlet to faciliate some flexibility with what gets fed by the softener, particularly given that modern detergents are able to work effectively at lower temperatures hence there is less of a requirement to wash at higher temperatures (which would otherwise increase the extraction and depositing of limescale).

Mathew

 

[Onetap]

I was at John Lewis looking at washing machine and dishwasher when the sales member of staff made me aware that water softener's should not be used on washing machines / dishwashers as they can make them faulty, especially in washing machines as they had recently experienced 4 washing machines becoming faulty as they had created to too much foam and bubbles in the washing machine. The member of staff then advised me that as this was due to the water softener creating the problem it invalidated the warranty.

It's probably not a good idea to ask a sales droid for technical advice.

Re washing machines, see the back of the detergent packet. You put in less detergent for soft water.

Re dishwashers, they all (?) have water softeners built in. The 'triple action' dishwasher tablets have the same phosphate stuff as the Calgon tablets or Combimate devices, so you don't have to put salt in.

 

[MJN]

It's probably not a good idea to ask a sales droid for technical advice.

Such broad brush advice is not particularly valid, particularly if what they have said is true.

As suggested, consult the manufacturers of the machine, e.g. from pg 29 of the manual for our Miele machine:

Miele do not recommend connecting the machine to a household water softener.

Or are they to be ignored too?

It is not as simple a case of reducing the detergent level for the reasons stated. You should realise that soft water out of the ground does not have the same chemical constituents as hard water softened through ion exchange (the usual mechanism as opposed to reverse osmosis).

Mathew

 

[HERTS P&D]

Don't forget that not connecting the water softner to the washing machine/dishwasher will save you money in salt.

Andy

 

[Onetap]

You should realise that soft water out of the ground does not have the same chemical constituents as hard water softened through ion exchange (the usual mechanism as opposed to reverse osmosis).

Yes. I know.

Such broad brush advice is not particularly valid, particularly if what they have said is true.

Is it true? Or does that just apply to Miele machines or the one the OP has? What they said about dishwashers is nonsense since dishwashers have their own softeners.

Or are they to be ignored too?

I'd ignore them. I don't have a Miele. For very good reasons.

 

[Nige F]

Most washing machines have cold fill only - so just connect it to the unsoftened supply to the kitchen cold tap If the dishwasher uses the same unsoftened cold water it`ll be fine - then have softened cold to bath and basin etc.and the hot water supply

 

[AJVAT]

Many thanks for all your advice and tips, spoke to a number of companies product technical people, two advised its ok to connect to water softener, three advised to run separate cold water into washing machines and dishwasher as it could effect the warranty.