Help with light switch wiring

[UnusualCapybara]

Thanks a lot for going to so much trouble on this, really starting to get a picture for what I have.

All the lights in question here - outside, low level, porch, hallway are on the same circuit on the consumer unit. Interestingly, I just tested connecting the thick T&E blue to a neutral for an existing light inside, and the brown to the switched live and the outside lights work fine. It sounds like I might just be looking to get a switched live and neutral to that thick connection then?

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks a lot for going to so much trouble on this, really starting to get a picture for what I have.

All the lights in question here - outside, low level, porch, hallway are on the same circuit on the consumer unit. Interestingly, I just tested connecting the thick T&E blue to a neutral for an existing light inside, and the brown to the switched live and the outside lights work fine. It sounds like I might just be looking to get a switched live and neutral to that thick connection then?

Brilliant work, next I want you to connect it to your neutral and to the grey wire, when you put the power back on they should light, then go round and flick all of the switches in as many combinations as possible including other switches which seem to be irrelevant to see if it goes off, I hope it doesn't.

 

[UnusualCapybara]

Just to check I understand properly - connect the thick blue to a known working neutral from another light, and the thick brown to grey?

 

[SUNRAY]

Just to check I understand properly - connect the thick blue to a known working neutral from another light, and the thick brown to grey?

YES

This is just a test, either the light or multimeter would do.

 

[UnusualCapybara]

YES

This is just a test, either the light or multimeter would do.

Success on that front - Known good neutral to thick blue + grey to thick brown results in the low level lighting being on. Tried a variety of switches and none seem to change that. The big thing is that the wall lantern could be switched on/off by the switch in the porch independently!

So it sounds like we have a constant live from that grey, but somehow need to make it switched and find a neutral near the switch to pair it with?

 

[SUNRAY]

Success on that front - Known good neutral to thick blue + grey to thick brown results in the low level lighting being on. Tried a variety of switches and none seem to change that. The big thing is that the wall lantern could be switched on/off by the switch in the porch independently!

So it sounds like we have a constant live from that grey, but somehow need to make it switched and find a neutral near the switch to pair it with?

Now can you check the wiring in the wall light?

Does it bear any resemblance to this with Lin & Lout joined and N in & SL from switch to light?

or

This is the alteration I'd be looking at with a neutral join in the switch backbox and a wire link between the switches, (If it's too messy to make sense I'll redraw).

A little unconvential but a means to an end without major work.

 

[UnusualCapybara]

Love this suggestion, it makes total sense!

However! Just pulled the wall lantern off it's fittings and it has only a live and a neutral meaning (I think) there is still a mysterious junction box somewhere in the mix behind a wall or ceiling which I can't seem to find.

 

[SUNRAY]

Love this suggestion, it makes total sense!

However! Just pulled the wall lantern off it's fittings and it has only a live and a neutral meaning (I think) there is still a mysterious junction box somewhere in the mix behind a wall or ceiling which I can't seem to find.

That's what I was hoping is wasn't. Try looking in the porch light, there's a slight pisibolity it's been done there.
Other than that I'm afraid it's ripping things apart and adding another cable.

 

[UnusualCapybara]

I think that's where we're at - a decision point between tons of disruption or just living without some low level lighting in the driveway (which is where I think I'm at!)

I've used a stud finder to identify a couple of spots where the T&E cables run, and picked some small inspection holes in the plaster but the stud finder seems not to be sensitive enough to find the full length of the route and I just run into a dead end.

Are there more sensitive tools available which might help me trace where the wires actually end up, and therefore where the JB might be?

 

[mrsplodge]

Can you trace the cable from the low level lighting outside? If you can find where that goes, it might be easier to add a junction box outside with a L+N from the lighting circuit, then the cable to the switch could be used as the L+SL.

 

[UnusualCapybara]

No Big bit of SWA vanishes into an exterior wall, presumed to be under the floorboards somewhere

 

[UnusualCapybara]

This project fell by the wayside due to Christmas and other stuff but wanted to come back and give an update.

In the end I decided to bite the bullet and run a T&E over to the switch from an existing lighting circuit which gave me the neutral needed to power all of the outside lighting from that switch. Bit of bonding and Easifill later, and its like the problem never existed

Big thank you to everyone who helped, particularly @SUNRAY and @EFLImpudence who spent a ton of time helping a complete stranger navigate a problem!

 

[SUNRAY]

This project fell by the wayside due to Christmas and other stuff but wanted to come back and give an update.

In the end I decided to bite the bullet and run a T&E over to the switch from an existing lighting circuit which gave me the neutral needed to power all of the outside lighting from that switch. Bit of bonding and Easifill later, and its like the problem never existed

Big thank you to everyone who helped, particularly @SUNRAY and @EFLImpudence who spent a ton of time helping a complete stranger navigate a problem!

You're welcome, glad you got there and thanks for the feedback