Hive v1 Install

[WolvesPhil]

I would like to replace my existing Honeywell Froststat and Danfoss TP1 that has Cosy Smart Thermostat installed alongside it (Danfoss always on and Cosy does the controlling)

I want to replace with a Hive v1 and it looks straight forward enough just getting a little confused with the numbering of the wires in each system.

I have attached a photo of the current setup, if you need any photos of the wiring of the Cosy let me know and I'll get some uploaded.

 

[stem]

Unfortunately there are many different ways to wire up heating systems depending upon the personal preferences of the original installer, where the different heating components are located in relation to each other, what cables were available etc., as well as the type of heating system being controlled. So, in that regard, details of your heating system are also required. For example do you have a combi boiler? or is there stored hot water that needs to be included in the control? if so, is it a 'Y Plan' with a single 3 port motorised valve? Is is an 'S Plan' with several 2 port motorised valves? if so how many? Something else?

I'm guessing that the TPOne was there first and the Cosy added later, so the TPone is redundant. Is this correct?

To advise you further, we would need to see the wiring at all the points you wish to modify and preferably details of what is connected to the other end of each wire that terminates there. As I said before, there are probably hundreds of different permutations of ways of wiring up heating systems, so it would be dangerous to assume.

I'm curious as to why you want to get rid of the frost thermostat? It is an additional safety feature to prevent damage to the system. It will only override the normal heating controls in the event that there is a risk of freezing occurring. Think of it like ABS in a car. You use the standard brakes most of the time, but if a situation arises where a skid is likely the ABS takes over, it's rarely used, but you wouldn't want to remove it.

Also, I'm also curious as to why you are wanting to change your existing controls. AFAIK the Cosy is remotely controllable like the Hive.

 

[WolvesPhil]

Hi, cheers for the reply.

We have a combi boiler (Baxi). The TP5 and frost stat were there when we moved in, not sure where the receiver for the Danfoss is though but when my current energy supplier fitted the cosy they left the existing system in place and i just had to set the TP5 to always on allowing the Cosy to manage the temperature. I am happy to just replace the Cosy with the Hive in that case and keep the TP5 and Froststat.

The Cosy itself is very poor in comparison to it's competitors - it doesn't communicate with IFFTT / Alexa or Smartthings - all of which are currently in place at home. With the Hive v1 being available for £60 currently I figured it might be worth replacing the Cosy. Also we have to factory reset the Cosy every few months as the whole system loses connection and forces the heating to go onto full which isn't pleasant! It's pretty buggy in all fairness

 

[stem]

Thanks for the Cosy comments, I have only seen one and frankly it wouldn't be my first choice. But I have been asked about them, so any info from an actual use is helpful. In this case because it is a bit of a mishmash, the easiest way to proceed would probably be much easier to rip out everything and rewire it from scratch.

Personally, I would want to remove the redundant TPOne entirely. In the event of a fault, it would complicate fault finding.

not sure where the receiver for the Danfoss is though but when my current energy supplier fitted the Cosy they left the existing system in place and i just had to set the TP5 to always on allowing the Cosy to manage the temperature.

Unless you have version of it that I haven't seen, the TPOne is wired in directly and so doesn't have a receiver. The Cosy is a bit odd in that the instructions do advise keeping any existing controls and setting them to 'Max' [maybe it's so that you can revert to using them if the Cosy is playing up ]

If there is a risk of freezing I would keep the froststat, if it is installed properly (not all are) it should be wired in conjunction with a pipe thermostat to stop the system getting warmer than is necessary when frost protection is required.

Is there a pipe thermostat fitted? Usually they are strapped onto the return pipe a short distance from the boiler and set at a low setting. They look something like this:



What make / model is your Baxi please?

 

[WolvesPhil]

Well I definitely wouldn't recommend Cosy based on our experiences, their support team keep promising integration with other smart technologies but I can't see it happening so thinking to rip and replace...

The Baxi Comi is a Platinum HE, the Danfoss we have is this one https://www.manualslib.com/products/Danfoss-Tp5-3923489.html - I don't see any mention of TPOne

I don't see any pipe thermostat anywhere

 

[stem]

The Baxi Comi is a Platinum HE

Thanks. So according to my research your boiler should have the following terminals for the external wiring, and the link between 1 & 2 will be missing.

I don't see any mention of TPOne

You were the one that mentioned it!

I would like to replace my ....Danfoss TP1

In any case, as it's going, it's irrelevant.

I don't see any pipe thermostat anywhere

Pity, that means the system will get hotter than it needs to be when the frost protection cuts in. Happens quite a bit and we get folks posting on here asking why their heating is coming on randomly in the middle of the night and the house is too hot. The pipe thermostat keeps the circulating water temperature just warm enough to prevent freezing but not warm enough so that the radiators get hot.

The best way to proceed is to remove all of the redundant equipment, just leaving the cable connected to the boiler in situ. There are two ways of wiring the boiler,

1) With a 3 cores (excluding the earth wire) connected to Live, Neutral and 2, or

2) With 4 cores (excluding the earth wire) connected to Live, Neutral, 1 and 2

The diagram below uses 4 cores connected as above, which is generally the most common. If you only have 3 cores connected as described above then post back and I will modify the diagram for you. As you will see, getting rid of all of the other superfluous stuff has made it much simpler.

I have shown the frost stat in the diagram also, should you wish to reinstate it as it is. If you want to do it properly and add a pipe thermostat to it let me know and I can advise further.

 

[WolvesPhil]

Sorry that was a typo - it should have read TP5 in the initial post! sorry for any confusion here and thanks for all your help so far!

 

[stem]

No worries. It didn't make too much difference like I said it's going anyway.

 

[Steelmasons]

Are you talking to yourself again Stem?
It won't be long until you run out of user names..
Just having a little joke with you Stem.

 

[Aquaheat]

@stem have you ever installed cosy or done the training course for them? Not having a go just interested in an opinion as I have had numerous emails and did their Web based courses but will hold back my opinion for a while.

Jon

 

[WolvesPhil]

@stem have you ever installed cosy or done the training course for them? Not having a go just interested in an opinion as I have had numerous emails and did their Web based courses but will hold back my opinion for a while.

Jon

I know this wasn't aimed at me but as a customer I am disappointed in Cosy. With the current state of home automation and a lot of things being new Cosy (GEO) are very slow to keep up with competitors. They only allow control by the controller, app and times so not much better than a standard thermostat, not linked to IFFTT, Alexa, Smartthings or any other automation platform so it's not really ready to be installed into a full solution (we have had the system 2 years)

 

[stem]

@stem have you ever installed cosy or done the training course for them?

I haven't done a course, but I have installed one, so by no means an expert. It was an older version some time ago, the instructions specifically stated that the existing controls should be left in place and the Cosy could be wired in parallel or series with the existing wiring. There was a selector switch to select which method was used. But this seems to have disappeared from the latest version now as far as I can see. Also it was only single zone as far as I can remember.

I personally didn't like leaving the existing controls in place as I thought it unnecessarily complicated things, but the manufacturer said they should be, so I assumed that there was a good reason even though I couldn't fathom it. If there was a wireless stat and a receiver existing, the batteries would have to be maintained in the stat even though it wasn't used to keep the relay energised. Found it all a bit odd really. Never heard anything back from the user, so I guess it worked OK.

Sorry but I can't comment on the functional / software side of things, the guy I installed it for was an IT whizz and once the wires were connected, he wanted to set all that up himself.

I look forward to your comments when you can't hold yourself any longer

 

[stem]

Are you talking to yourself again Stem?
It won't be long until you run out of user names..
Just having a little joke with you Stem.

Well it made me smile and I tried to think of a witty reply, but couldn't come up with anything.

 

[WolvesPhil]

Hi stem,
I haven't got round to purchasing my Hive yet but thought I would send over a photo of the wiring in the boiler just for confirmation on your diagram https://ibb.co/fKY3av

 

[stem]

Good, that corresponds to the photo of the terminals I posted earlier. Unfortunately it's difficult to see the photo clearly. I can see some of the wires and two cable sheaths but not how they relate to each other. However, it looks like there is presently a wire in both terminal 1 (blue) and 2 (Black) at the bottom left of the photo. If so, they will be the switching wires, the other ends of which should go to Hive terminals 1 and 3 as per my sketch.