house re-wire

[andy]

if i wanted to re-wire a house, could i get away with replacing all 'damaged' wires to form a new ring, replace all 'damaged' sockets and add a few new sockets to the ring?

also id have to get the kitchen, bathroom and CU inspected

 

[dingbat]

if i wanted to re-wire a house, could i get away with replacing all 'damaged' wires to form a new ring, replace all 'damaged' sockets and add a few new sockets to the ring?

Absolutely not... as well you know! Not without building regulation approval... but you'll do it anyway.

 

[andy]

if i wanted to re-wire a house, could i get away with replacing all 'damaged' wires to form a new ring, replace all 'damaged' sockets and add a few new sockets to the ring?

Absolutely not... as well you know! Not without building regulation approval... but you'll do it anyway.

yes, but in a way im doin nothin again the building regs. i would be replacing 'damaged' cables. then damaged sockets

 

[dingbat]

Yeah, but your just getting on that old Part-P bashing bandwagon, aren't you? Despite the sometimes well-intentioned, often simply misguided resistance movement the legislation will not go away. It's too late for that and in any case, some form of industry regulation has been lobbied for by the NICEIC and others for years.

In a way (confusing though it is) you should be grateful the government opened it up to competition because, for a while at least, you'll have a choice on how to go about complying. Eventually though, there'll just be a couple of big players and you'll end up using their members whether you go through LABC, pay for a PIR when you sell your house, use a registered installer... or become one yourself.

And really, the only sparks who have anything to fear from the changes are those who don't actually work to the regs anyway (which already require you to test and certify). I really don't see what all the fus is about.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I really don't see what all the fus is about.

I don't believe that for one second. You know full well what the fuss is all about - if you didn't then it would mean that you were so stupid you'd need a map to find your way home each day.

You know alright, you just don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

if i wanted to re-wire a house, could i get away with replacing all 'damaged' wires to form a new ring, replace all 'damaged' sockets and add a few new sockets to the ring?

Absolutely not... as well you know! Not without building regulation approval... but you'll do it anyway.

yes, but in a way im doin nothin again the building regs. i would be replacing 'damaged' cables. then damaged sockets

One thing that is crystal clear about the new Building Regulations is that it says you do not need to notify "replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;"

 

[andy]

if i wanted to re-wire a house, could i get away with replacing all 'damaged' wires to form a new ring, replace all 'damaged' sockets and add a few new sockets to the ring?

Absolutely not... as well you know! Not without building regulation approval... but you'll do it anyway.

yes, but in a way im doin nothin again the building regs. i would be replacing 'damaged' cables. then damaged sockets

One thing that is crystal clear about the new Building Regulations is that it says you do not need to notify "replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;"

i kno. but there might be a mad DIYer who drill holes for shelves thru a cable so it needs replaced. not likely to happen, and not a very effective way to re-wire a house, but the fact still remains that aslong as u only place cables where existing cables were then your not breaking any laws (unless you go in a special location)

 

[dingbat]

I really don't see what all the fus is about.

I don't believe that for one second. You know full well what the fuss is all about - if you didn't then it would mean that you were so stupid you'd need a map to find your way home each day.

You know alright, you just don't want to acknowledge it.

Very interesting, b-a-n. My view? I don't care how long you've been doing the job. I don't give two hoots for your qualifications. The domestic electrical installation 'industry' is long overdue for regulation. It makes complete sense for electrical works to come under the umbrella of the building regulations. It makes complete sense to allow self-certification by suitably qualified and knowledgeable and up-to-date electricians.

The 'fuss' is all coming from those who have routinely done electrical work in dwellings, oblivious to the requirements of the wiring regulations to inspect, test and certify their work. It matters not whether you agree with the requirements or not... they are still the requirements.

Okay, maybe I don't possess your special powers. Maybe I'm guilty of wanting to work within the law, regardless of how many cowboys that may exclude. I really don't know what your post is getting at. Perhaps you could explain?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you really need it explaining again?

After all that you've read about it, you don't agree that it's heavy handed and penalises the honest while not significantly deterring the dishonest?

What good would explaining it again do?

 

[dingbat]

Do you really need it explaining again?

After all that you've read about it, you don't agree that it's heavy handed and penalises the honest while not significantly deterring the dishonest?

What good would explaining it again do?

And this is where we disagree. Why should an honest trader resent the opportunity to not only prove their integrity but have it recognised and endorsed?

 

[dingbat]

I really don't see what all the fus is about.

I don't believe that for one second. You know full well what the fuss is all about - if you didn't then it would mean that you were so stupid you'd need a map to find your way home each day.

You really can be the most patronising of posters, you know that? For the most part I agree with you, but you do have the most obnoxious manner at times... (And I acknowledge that I am far from perfect, myself.)

 

[securespark]

Yes, one damaged cable only (due to fire, rodent or impact) and it has to follow the same route as the existing one.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you really need it explaining again?

After all that you've read about it, you don't agree that it's heavy handed and penalises the honest while not significantly deterring the dishonest?

What good would explaining it again do?

And this is where we disagree. Why should an honest trader resent the opportunity to not only prove their integrity but have it recognised and endorsed?

From the Screwfix Electricians Talk forum:

BS7671 says that work should be carried out by competent persons. If you have 238 and 239 certificates, I think you are competent in the requirements of BS7671 and competent to inspect and test your own work. Where does BS7671 say you must be a member of a trade organization? Perhaps 'white stick' Blunkett will arrest all those not complying with part P, whilst allowing any old mad cleric into the country.

Valid comment RD. Like so much law-enforcement these days it's heavy handed and penalises the honest while not significantly deterring the dishonest. Presumably somebody in government was set a target to achieve and lacking any way of actually measuring competence came up with registration instead because that, at least, can be counted.

 

[SparkyTris]

Andrew, I am in what sounds like exactly the same boat as you. Got an old cottage that needs a complete electrical overhaul. The incoming service needs to be moved, old Wylex wood & bakelite fuseboxes needing replaced, wiring all needs replaced and fitments all need replaced. (all original 1950s stuff - shame really - I even have a few of the miniature 3A lighting sockets!)

I'm going to do the work myself but in close communication with my local inspector to make sure that the work will be certifiable when I'm finished. I would suggest to anyone about to do this, to contact the Local authority. Chances are, they will be caught in a state of flux and would be happy to "learn together"! That's how my local authority are viewing it anyway, and I'm very happy about it. Furthermore, my local authority are planning to charge for inspection based on a percentage of cost of works. So if you are doing the works yourself, you have the opportunity to keep this figure ridiculously low. Maybe.

 

[dingbat]

B-a-n. All those months ago we were all still learning about the implications of the BR amendment. But even back then I fully supported regulation of the industry whilst being unconvinced that the proposals would necessarily achieve that aim. Few, if any, self-cert schemes had been launched at that stage and the idea of being forced to join a 'club' seemed heavy-handed. The existence of five such clubs only added to the confusion.

Since then I have followed the arguments and, as a reasonable person, been persuaded of certain things: Trading without the ability to self-certify was not a realistic option for me, so I signed up. The cost is not so high and compares favourably with that of joining many such organisations in various trades. And hey, the legislation was in place; a decision had to be made.

Of course, being in an organisation is available to both honest and dishonest tradesmen and could be seen by some as legitimising the occasional bad apple, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those afraid of assessment won't stop that. At least joining a scheme offers some consumer confidence. Those who don't join are making a decision to limit their ability to trade and will in time be seen as the cowboys.

The choice is fairly clear-cut. Swallow pride, sign up, be assessed and continue trading, or... keep trying to read more (or less) between the lines of the official documents, keep bleating on about how unfair it all is, become sidelined and perhaps end up losing your income. To me, it was an easy decision when it came to it. No fuss.