Can I really re-wire the majority of my house with no Part P

[BenTryingToSave]

Hi guys I can already see a load of threads about part-p and rewires already and I am a new member just adding more... So sorry about this. I just want to see if I got this right. It seems like a very easy way round!

I understand I can't get an electrician to sign of my 'DIY re-wire', and also I need to notify building regulations before a DIY re-wire is carried out....

BUT the Part-P guide lines also state I am allowed by law with no qualifications and without informing building regs;
To replace an existing lighting or socket circuit as long as the wire spec is the same.

I'm allowed to add sockets and light fixings to an existing circuit (the circuit i'm allowed to replace) as long as it is not in the kitchen or bathroom.

In short it sounds like I am allowed to rewire and add sockets to my house! As long as its room by room, I don't add a new circuit! All I then need is a registered sparky to fit extra sockets to the new kitchen circuit and obviously replace the CU. That would be less than half a days labor surely!

It sounds legally do able. Thoughts? Opinions?
Thanks

 

[mikeey84]

Hi Ben, I am sure the stalwarts of this thread will be along shortly to answer your query in more detail, but my thoughts on it are:

Whilst you can replace wires, as long as it is to modern standards, you cannot disconnect/reconnect that new wire to the CU. Whilst you could leave the tails at the CU ready for the replacement of said CU, the sparky who does the work may want to see the runs to ensure that its safe.

Extra sockets in the kitchen are now non notifiable, as the kitchen is no longer classed as a "special location" (unless you have a bath in there!)

I would get the CU replaced first, that way you have the added protection/ peace of mind that the circuits you are working on are wired into a nice new shiny CU (and the sparky can do a safety inspection of the current circuits while he is there)

 

[ericmark]

Hi guys I can already see a load of threads about part-p and rewires already and I am a new member just adding more... So sorry about this. I just want to see if I got this right. It seems like a very easy way round!

I understand I can't get an electrician to sign of my 'DIY re-wire', and also I need to notify building regulations before a DIY re-wire is carried out....

In England I think that has changed?

BUT the Part-P guide lines also state I am allowed by law with no qualifications and without informing building regs;

Not quite it says you must have the skill required and without gaining qualifications your unlikely to gain the skill

To replace an existing lighting or socket circuit as long as the wire spec is the same.

I'm allowed to add sockets and light fixings to an existing circuit (the circuit i'm allowed to replace) as long as it is not in the kitchen or bathroom.

Not sure if your in England or Wales it does make a difference but to say "I" you need to say what skills the "I" has!

In short it sounds like I am allowed to rewire and add sockets to my house! As long as its room by room, I don't add a new circuit! All I then need is a registered sparky to fit extra sockets to the new kitchen circuit and obviously replace the CU. That would be less than half a days labor surely!

It sounds legally do able. Thoughts? Opinions?
Thanks

As already said England and Wales are not the same England says what you can't do and Wales says what you can do. So if not in the English list of items you must register you can do it. However the definitions is where the problem lies.

A scullery, back kitchen and utility room as really the same thing but we look for food preparation areas and does not matter where it is if you have a area where you can make your butties it's a kitchen.

There are others for example a fused connection unit is in BS7671 considered as making a new circuit but most would not consider it to be notifiable.

What Part P does say is it must comply with BS7671 or similar and to be blunt most DIY people don't have the skill or tools to comply.

So down to nitty gritty you can break the law or stay within the law and if you break it your chances of getting caught is slim but trying to miss read regulations to justify what you intend to do is not going to kid anyone. Just be honest and say either to H*** with the law I'm doing it anyway or get a scheme member electrician.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So sorry about this.

Apology accepted - or is it sarcasm without the punctuation.

I understand I can't get an electrician to sign of my 'DIY re-wire',

Correct, although you could get one to supervise the work and then 'sign off'.

and also I need to notify building regulations before a DIY re-wire is carried out....

Without a registered electrician you do but they may not deem you competent.

BUT the Part-P guide lines also state I am allowed by law with no qualifications and without informing building regs;
To replace an existing lighting or socket circuit as long as the wire spec is the same.

Only if you are competent.

I'm allowed to add sockets and light fixings to an existing circuit (the circuit i'm allowed to replace) as long as it is not in the kitchen or bathroom.

Kitchen is irrelevant. Bathrooms within zones.
I take it you are not even looking at the current regulations.

In short it sounds like I am allowed to rewire and add sockets to my house! As long as its room by room, I don't add a new circuit!

If competent.
New sockets require RCD protection so where are you going to draw the line between fiddling the regulations and ignoring them?

All I then need is a registered sparky to fit extra sockets to the new kitchen circuit

I thought you had already done that.

and obviously replace the CU.

Ok.

That would be less than half a days labor surely!

To physically fit it, yes but there may be problems to sort.

there may be problems which would not accept an rcd.
How will you know?

It sounds legally do able.

It depends which laws you decide to break.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I have none.



So, are you competent?
Have you the necessary equipment?
Why did you bother to ask?

 

[pompeygit]

It is worth you reading this
http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG6-2012TP_web.pdf
Do remember that your existing installation may not comply with the requirements of Parts A,B,C, E,L,F,M and P. Also automatically replacing cables like for like maybe replacing old cables for new cables into a system that doesn't already comply to BS7671 in respect of correct design. Also any alteration in a bathroom must be notified.
The shame is that if you don't work in conjunction with a sparky the following must be noted.
1. You won't have a certificate to demonstrate your house was rewired in 2014
2. You maybe replacing cables in a system that already does not comply with BS7671 in that it maybe badly designed
3. You will only have Building Regs compliance for a consumer unit change
4. If any circuit does not meet the design requirements of BS7671 then the sparky has the right to refuse to connect said circuit to consumer unit.
5. When you come to sell your property you will only have a certificate for the consumer unit change and not the rewire.
For all you know the existing installation maybe failing to comply so at the very least I would pay £100 to a sparky for an EICR.
Remember that the sparkys responsibility ends at the consumer unit change and although he will conduct tests on the connected circuits there is no record or paperwork trail of a rewire when a house search is made.

 

[bernardgreen]

Isn't it more important to ensure the installation is safe and less important to ensure there is paper work.

How many certificates are still valid after a few years ? How many are valid ( and accurate ) at the time they are issued ?.

When buying a house can one be 100% certain the certificates are genuine and accurate ? Would you trust your safety to a piece of paper signed by someone you had no knowledge of ?. Most certificates probably are accurate and genuine but some will not be valid due to un-intentional error or ommission and a few may be as bad as being bogus produced by cowboy electricians.

 

[SimonH2]

Whilst you can replace wires, as long as it is to modern standards, you cannot disconnect/reconnect that new wire to the CU.

Err, wrong. There is no such limitation.

Isn't it more important to ensure the installation is safe and less important to ensure there is paper work.

Exactly - to you, me, and probably a lot of the regulars here that is the case. But these days it seems more store is put on "the right bit of paper" (see the regular threads about "the solicitor wants to see … what do I do") regardless of anything else.

 

[ericmark]

One can down load blank forms and fill them in for all work done assuming you have the equipment to take the readings asked for.

I will talk about England (not Wales) and the basic rule is a Minor Works Certificate is a stand alone document and an Insulation Certificate will need a compliance or completion certificate with it.

So if an electrician re-wires a house you have two bits of paper the installation certificate and the compliance or completion certificate but if you do bit at time then you will have a folder full of Minor Works Certificates which make it very evident to anyone looking at the paperwork what has gone on.

I do intend to do some wiring in my own house and it will be combined with other work done to make house suitable for my disabled mother so likely not LABC charges or if there is unlikely to be paying more because including the electrical work but the same question arises the signature.

I have no intention of selling the house and plans were drawn up for changes before 2004 so in theroy my signature is good enough but if I was to sell the house then I would expect the solicitor on seeing same signature on Installation certificate as sale documents to want a PIR or EICR but again nothing to stop me doing them as well.

So reverse the tables I would take a document and select some random readings and re-test. If those readings were within limits of original I would assume done correct. If not I would reject the paperwork as a whole.

So it will need correct readings no guesswork. Should anyone take random readings and compare with what you have recorded these need to be very close to each other. Never the same press the button twice and always slightly different but need to show similar results.

Now for me with a full test set not a problem every bit will be tested as I go along but for the DIY guy more of a problem. If I did not have all the equipment then likely best option is re-wire bit at a time then get a EICR done and copy all the readings across to your paperwork.

But what if items fail. It's not a case of if done correct every guy doing a EICR is using his skill and judgement so what one may pass another may fail. Read these pages and see how people disagree with guide lines given with "Best Practice Guides" the guide does not follow BS7671 blindly but gives advice as to when to allow and how much to allow deviation from the standards.

 

[mikeey84]

Whilst you can replace wires, as long as it is to modern standards, you cannot disconnect/reconnect that new wire to the CU.

Err, wrong. There is no such limitation.
.

Apologies. Didnt know that.