Yet Another Part P Question

[Mug-o-Latte]

Okay,

Looking at Part P I am exempt if:

Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of -
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or
(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

I am re-wiring a playroom, to include FCU's and additional sockets off an existing ring. This will take me a few weeks. At the end of this time, I will 'accidentally' install a new kitchen. As the room technically isn't a kitchen yet, all I am doing is (ii) above, adding a few new sockets.

Anyone care to comment?

P.S. As an aside, I was planning to add a dedicated cooker circuit from the main CU to the playroom, as the cooker in the old kitchen doesn't have one (it runs off the existing ring!), which I believe I do need building regs (Part P) for, so it looks like I'll need to get them in anyway!

 

[Stoday]

"Kitchen" is defined in the Building Regulations as "a room or part of a room which contains a sink and food preparation facilities.

As a guide only, in open plan areas the zone of the kitchen may be considered to extend from the edge of the sink to a distance of 3m or to a nearer dividing wall."

 

[Paul_C]

At the end of this time, I will 'accidentally' install a new kitchen

LOL! I like your thinking!

This just goes to show how the exemptions in part P make a mockery of its proposed aim (although it's doomed to failure from the start).

On a point of law, I would see this complying with part P. At the time you install the extra wiring, the room is not a kitchen. There's nothing in the rules to say that retro-notification is required if you later change the use of the room.

 

[Stoday]

Yup.

It would seem that if you delay the installation of a sink until the wiring's finished, you are not installing in a kitchen.

 

[Mug-o-Latte]

Stoday,

Nice to know the definition of a kitchen is that it has a kitchen sink!

The room that I will turn into a kitchen will be open plan into a dining room, so in the future if any socket in the dining room is less than 3m from the sink, and I am doing any work on it e.g. changing a switch, I need to call in P-Man (or BR-Man) to check it out!

Q: How many Part P Building Regulations people does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: It depends on whether it is within 3m of a kitchen sink! If <3m, 1 to open the application, 1 to read the application, 1 to print out the response, 1 to post the response, 1 to make the appointment to visit, 1 to inspect the lightbulb, 1 to send you the approval to proceed, 1 to re-inspect to ensure the lightbulb is fitted properly, and finally 1 to send you the certificate of completion ... total 9 people. No wonder it will cost a few hundred quid to do any DIY electrical work in the future.

MOL.

 

[wires-crossed]

Not meaning to interrupt, Although Kitchen and bathrooms are classed as special areas, if you are adding to circuits or creating new ones in any room a minor works certificate should be issued (thats supposed to happen at the moment anyway!) so basically any work done in a domestic dwelling shoud be certificated, the only thing you could get away with at the moment is swapping old for new.
If you're never going to sell your house etc then you could do what you wanted

 

[andy]

Not meaning to interrupt, Although Kitchen and bathrooms are classed as special areas, if you are adding to circuits or creating new ones in any room a minor works certificate should be issued (thats supposed to happen at the moment anyway!) so basically any work done in a domestic dwelling shoud be certificated, the only thing you could get away with at the moment is swapping old for new.
If you're never going to sell your house etc then you could do what you wanted

minor works cert. is diferent from part P cert. u cud rite ur own minor works cert if u wanted 2

 

[shaggy]

Andrew:

u cud rite ur own minor works cert if u wanted 2

...you could write your own if you were competent, but it would be best to use English.

 

[dingbat]

Not meaning to interrupt, Although Kitchen and bathrooms are classed as special areas, if you are adding to circuits or creating new ones in any room a minor works certificate should be issued (thats supposed to happen at the moment anyway!)

Adding new circuits is not considered minor work, as an element of design is required - selection of cable and protective device, for instance. This should be certifed with a full EIC. But otherwise you are right; almost any work except maintenence or like-for-like replacement ought to be certified to be compliant with BS7671, which (despite what some are saying) is the standard by which it will be judged.

 

[Paul_C]

be certified to be compliant with BS7671, which (despite what some are saying) is the standard by which it will be judged.

BS7671 will no doubt be the most common by default, but that doesn't alter the fact that part P does not legally require compliance with BS7671.

 

[dingbat]

be certified to be compliant with BS7671, which (despite what some are saying) is the standard by which it will be judged.

BS7671 will no doubt be the most common by default, but that doesn't alter the fact that part P does not legally require compliance with BS7671.

That's absolutely fine. I'll let you argue the toss with the judge.

 

[jenki]

be certified to be compliant with BS7671, which (despite what some are saying) is the standard by which it will be judged.

BS7671 will no doubt be the most common by default, but that doesn't alter the fact that part P does not legally require compliance with BS7671.

That's absolutely fine. I'll let you argue the toss with the judge.

I agree Dingbat, It might not legally require compliance, but it needs approval from a LBC, and all LBC use BS( that's British Standard) as their adoptive standard, thus IMO like it or not, it must conform to BS7671 - even if its a bit back to front.
Also - does this not fall into the "Criminal law" category so we are talking jail time possibilities I've paid the money, and await NAPIT to welcome me with open arms.

 

[Paul_C]

It might not legally require compliance, but it needs approval from a LBC, and all LBC use BS( that's British Standard) as their adoptive standard, thus IMO like it or not, it must conform to BS7671

Ultimately, if somebody refuses to change an installation because it does not comply fully with BS7671, all the council can do is take it to court. And the court works on what the law says. Part P of the building regs. does not state that work must follow BS7671, so how could a court say that it must?

Also - does this not fall into the "Criminal law" category so we are talking jail time possibilities

Precisely -- Failure to comply with the Building Regs. is classed as a "criminal offence." When somebody is accused of a crime, the burden of proof lies with the prosecution. The only legal requirements for wiring are the rather broad terms set out in the Building Regs., which state that work must be reasonably safe, etc.

For the case to be proven, Building Control would have to show that the work did not comply with those rather vague requirements, not just that it doesn't follow BS7671. The "Approved Document" is not law in itself, but even that clearly states that Part P can be complied with by means other than BS7671.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

be certified to be compliant with BS7671, which (despite what some are saying) is the standard by which it will be judged.

BS7671 will no doubt be the most common by default, but that doesn't alter the fact that part P does not legally require compliance with BS7671.

That's absolutely fine. I'll let you argue the toss with the judge.

It would never get that far.