partial ring re-wiring

[simongii]

Hi,

I am currently modernising a house. Though the house is 1950s the electrics in there aren't "too bad" (my opinion based on no experience!).

It has a modern consumer unit but the older wire colours. We're re-decorating each room at a time and I was wondering what I could get away with under Part P work that need not be notified. I think the document I've read from Panning Portal leaves some wiggle room for interpetation.

The first room we're looking to decorate is a bedroom. We're looking at changing all of the existing socket fronts and spurring off one to add another socket high on the wall for a wall hung TV. While the room was empty and gutted I was going to rewire the legs between the sockets with new grey/blue 2.5 cable but won't bother if this constitutes notification.

Assuming that this doesn't and that it's ok, could this be taken further till eventually the whole ring is re-wired bar the legs back the CU all exempt from notification? I think if I were to do as one piece of work my interpretation is that it would need notification. But if I do it in bits and pieces I wonder if it's considered ok.

Interestingly the Table 1 only mentions replacing cable for a single circuit where damaged by fire, rodent or impact. It doesn't mention replacing it for the sake of it. In this case would damaging the cable of each leg before I replace it allow me exemption form notification?

I will still have the legs back the CU which I don't think can be done without notification but I can get a spark in for a day to do that and a bunch of other things in one go and he'll self-certify?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[riveralt]

Hi,
I am currently modernising a house. Though the house is 1950s the electrics in there aren't "too bad" (my opinion based on no experience!).

With 60 year old wiring that is open to question.

It has a modern consumer unit but the older wire colours. We're re-decorating each room at a time and I was wondering what I could get away with under Part P work that need not be notified. I think the document I've read from Panning Portal leaves some wiggle room for interpetation.

How modern is the CU - does it have the socket circuits additionally protected by an RCD?

The first room we're looking to decorate is a bedroom. We're looking at changing all of the existing socket fronts and spurring off one to add another socket high on the wall for a wall hung TV.

Provided it is not already a spur.

While the room was empty and gutted I was going to rewire the legs between the sockets with new grey/blue 2.5 cable but won't bother if this constitutes notification.

No because the old cable is damaged isn't it -but if your CU hasn't got RCD protection for the circuit can you ensure that the new cable will be more than 50mm below the surface?

Assuming that this doesn't and that it's ok, could this be taken further till eventually the whole ring is re-wired bar the legs back the CU all exempt from notification? I think if I were to do as one piece of work my interpretation is that it would need notification. But if I do it in bits and pieces I wonder if it's considered ok.

See above

Interestingly the Table 1 only mentions replacing cable for a single circuit where damaged by fire, rodent or impact. It doesn't mention replacing it for the sake of it. In this case would damaging the cable of each leg before I replace it allow me exemption form notification?

See above.

I will still have the legs back the CU which I don't think can be done without notification but I can get a spark in for a day to do that and a bunch of other things in one go and he'll self-certify?

He will need to test the whole circuit though.

 

[1550]

With all due respect there is no way you can look at an electrical installation and assume that it is ok. You need to extend your budget and employ an experienced tester to check your installation to give you an assessment of the condition. If you then wish to try and circumvent the requirements , well as Holmslaw say's " do what you want"

 

[simongii]

Thanks a lot for the response.

It has a modern consumer unit but the older wire colours. We're re-decorating each room at a time and I was wondering what I could get away with under Part P work that need not be notified. I think the document I've read from Panning Portal leaves some wiggle room for interpetation.

How modern is the CU - does it have the socket circuits additionally protected by an RCD?

Rings do have an RCD - yes.

The first room we're looking to decorate is a bedroom. We're looking at changing all of the existing socket fronts and spurring off one to add another socket high on the wall for a wall hung TV.

Provided it is not already a spur.

Got it - the socket in question is definately on the ring itself.

While the room was empty and gutted I was going to rewire the legs between the sockets with new grey/blue 2.5 cable but won't bother if this constitutes notification.

No because the old cable is damaged isn't it -but if your CU hasn't got RCD protection for the circuit can you ensure that the new cable will be more than 50mm below the surface?

Assuming that this doesn't and that it's ok, could this be taken further till eventually the whole ring is re-wired bar the legs back the CU all exempt from notification? I think if I were to do as one piece of work my interpretation is that it would need notification. But if I do it in bits and pieces I wonder if it's considered ok.

See above

Interestingly the Table 1 only mentions replacing cable for a single circuit where damaged by fire, rodent or impact. It doesn't mention replacing it for the sake of it. In this case would damaging the cable of each leg before I replace it allow me exemption form notification?

See above.

I will still have the legs back the CU which I don't think can be done without notification but I can get a spark in for a day to do that and a bunch of other things in one go and he'll self-certify?

He will need to test the whole circuit though.

[/quote]

Cable is completely undamaged at the moment. The only reason I am even considering changing cable legs is because the room is gutted at the moment and it's an ideal time. Probably overkill as I've no reason to suspect existing cable is inadequate.

Yes, he will need to test the whole circuit but hiring an electirician to rewire final legs back to the CU and certify I'd have thought is cheaper than having him rewire the whole ring main. If I can get away with re-cabling all but the final legs without having to notify Building Control I'd do that and then if I ever felt it would be good to re-cable the final legs get a spark in to do that. It's more what's allowable without notification at the moment.

 

[simongii]

With all due respect there is no way you can look at an electrical installation and assume that it is ok. You need to extend your budget and employ an experienced tester to check your installation to give you an assessment of the condition. If you then wish to try and circumvent the requirements , well as Holmslaw say's " do what you want"

I see your point. I shall find professional to check that the current installation is up to scratch. If so, and if I still felt the urge to re-cable parts of the ring main myself would this constitute notifiable work?

 

[1550]

Yes, it may take your circuit over the permitted values for that circuit. you need to ask your electrician what you are permitted to do within the parameters of part p and the results he has assessed.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I cannot for the life of me work out why you would want to rewire a circuit if there was nothing wrong with it.

 

[flameport]

I can get a spark in for a day to do that and a bunch of other things in one go and he'll self-certify?

They will certify and notify any work which they have done - nothing else.
They could also arrive after your expensive new decor is done and inform you that the wiring is a dangerous mess and needs to be replaced. Or it could all be perfect. Or anything in between.

You need to get this person in now, to establish what (if anything) actually need to be replaced, and discuss/arrange with them exactly who will be doing what.
Otherwise, it will inevitably lead to some very expensive mistakes.

 

[simongii]

I cannot for the life of me work out why you would want to rewire a circuit if there was nothing wrong with it.

Just considering it at the moment. I don't know exactly how old the wiring is and before redecorating and moving wanted to get as much work done as possible. I'd rather do it now for preventative measures than have to do it in 2/3 years time when it would be more difficult.

Fair point though - I suppose if it's not broke don't fix it. I think 1550 was right - get a pro in to test it and get his opinion. If he says it's 30 years old and may need replacing I may reconsider doing each leg as I go.

Thanks.

 

[simongii]

I can get a spark in for a day to do that and a bunch of other things in one go and he'll self-certify?

They will certify and notify any work which they have done - nothing else.
They could also arrive after your expensive new decor is done and inform you that the wiring is a dangerous mess and needs to be replaced. Or it could all be perfect. Or anything in between.

You need to get this person in now, to establish what (if anything) actually need to be replaced, and discuss/arrange with them exactly who will be doing what.
Otherwise, it will inevitably lead to some very expensive mistakes.

That makes a lot of sense - thanks. I've been convinced that a spark in early doors is the right thing to do. Cheers