House Rewire and new consumer unit

leeco · 16 Nov 2014

The OP doesn't care about planning laws or building regs too.

//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/fit-a-window-which-is-smaller-than-the-frame.414230/

I feel sorry for the poor person that owns the house after Bruce moves on.

EFLImpudence · 16 Nov 2014

I am always intrigued by comments such as this by the OP from his post in the plumbing forum:

"( just asking: it's a nightmare to try and find an honest trader )"

Such a statement could be justified because of previous experience but more likely arrogance judging by the rest of the text.

Whichever it is, asking other traders for free advice, which obviously is being rejected unless agreeable, does smack of effrontery in the extreme.

poriet · 16 Nov 2014

I see the answer is not to mess with the electrics ( or the plumbing either: who would bother raking that up?)
It's all very well telling me that home electrics is too complicated and that awful things will happen, but things arent that straightforward. I saw a You-tube video of a CU. It was dreadful. But (a) I wouldn't be that bad and (b) despite being the worst piece of electrical work since somebody stood in a thunderstorm with a kite and a key, it still worked and didn't kill anyone.

I made a big mistake about the Main fuse. But then, of course I would have relentlessly checked with a meter there was no short. It was just belt and braces, but I didn't know the fuse was tamper-proof. Not a bad idea, really. I would have seen it when I started.

No, I've never heard of Ze and Zs. But you cant blind me with science. I read up and they aren't that complicated: it's just a loop impedance.

I will be doing my homework beforehand. Some of you guys may be willing to check pics of what I've done. Others will likely pic holes in it.

I see you feel I think I'm right and that everybody else is wrong. That's overstating /oversimplifying things. There has been some unacceptable work done in the past and to put a stop to it new rules prevent anyone from doing it, whatever their level of competence. Am I competent? Who knows?

Thanks for the responses; favourable or otherwise. I'm sure that even my harshest critics are trying to be helpful.

Bruce

Taylortwocities · 17 Nov 2014

To even start, you will need the following calibrated test equipment:

Low ohm continuity meter
Insulation resistance tester
RCD tester

(the above could be in a single combined test meter)

Do you have these essential items?

poriet · 18 Nov 2014

Hello TTC,
Thanks.
I don't have the specialist devices you mention, but I will be acquiring them before I start, to measure r1+r2 and R1+R2 and all manner of stuff.
I did find a set of tutorials I thought were rather good from Worcester College (UK) which also shows the minimum device requirement to assemble and test.

Bruce

ban-all-sheds · 18 Nov 2014

poriet said:
I see the answer is not to mess with the electrics

Actually, the answer is not to mess up with them.

It's all very well telling me that home electrics is too complicated and that awful things will happen

It's not that they are too complicated, it's that they are more complicated than you think they are, and you saying things like "rewiring has little to do with electricity" doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to do the work.

but things arent that straightforward. I saw a You-tube video of a CU. It was dreadful. But (a) I wouldn't be that bad and (b) despite being the worst piece of electrical work since somebody stood in a thunderstorm with a kite and a key, it still worked and didn't kill anyone.

How do you, or the person who fitted it know that it works? There's more to working than all the lights coming on etc. Will it work when something goes wrong?

I made a big mistake about the Main fuse. But then, of course I would have relentlessly checked with a meter there was no short.

Until you posted here I don't think you knew what test equipment you needed, let alone how to use it, but you already had the idea that you would "relentlessly check with a meter there was no short". What did you think you would do the checking with?

It's another example of you missing something very important because you have absolutely no idea that the topic even exists. It's another example of why you can't do this just by asking questions about things which happen to occur to you - you need to study the subject.

No, I've never heard of Ze and Zs. But you cant blind me with science. I read up and they aren't that complicated: it's just a loop impedance.

I wasn't trying to blind you with science, and no they aren't very complicated. They are just some of a few things I picked at random. They, and the other things, aren't all you need to know about, but had you heard about them before? When you first posted here you seemed certain that you were quite capable of rewiring a house, and yet there were things you did not know, had never heard of, and had no idea you didn't know them, or needed to.

I hope that the penny has dropped - I hope that you now recognise the problem of unknown unknowns.

I will be doing my homework beforehand.

Excellent. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/field-keywords=domestic electrical installation

Some of you guys may be willing to check pics of what I've done.

Might be too late by then.

I see you feel I think I'm right and that everybody else is wrong. That's overstating /oversimplifying things.

I think you felt, maybe still do to some extent, that the task was far simpler than it really is, and that therefore the "dire warnings" weren't realistic.

There has been some unacceptable work done in the past and to put a stop to it new rules prevent anyone from doing it, whatever their level of competence.

Actually, no, there are no new rules like that. The law requires that reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury, but it doesn't say who may or may not do the work. It does say that some work requires Building Regulations approval, and for anybody who is not a member of a self-certification scheme that means requesting approval in advance, but again there is no prohibition of DIY electrical work.

Am I competent? Who knows?

The $64,000 question.

If you don't feel that you could sign the declaration below, and don't feel that you could robustly defend your position and explain why you could legitimately sign it, then you shouldn't be doing the work. You need to be honest with yourself - if you're going to make the assertion you have to ask yourself "How do I know it complies?" "What are the requirements?" "How do I know what they are, and how do I know that I know?".

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

poriet said:
I did find a set of tutorials I thought were rather good from Worcester College (UK) which also shows the minimum device requirement to assemble and test.

Could you post the link here? I'd be interested in taking a look at them.

poriet · 18 Nov 2014

OK Fair point, well made.
I rather think we are confusing 2 issues here: some of you say I shouldn't even try unless I've done the 17th Ed by going to college and am fully certified; some are saying that maybe it can be done by an amateur if he does his homework. What say you?

Yes, I probably was a bit cocky and unaware of the many subtle quirks of house wiring and the tests which should be done. I feel suitably chastened.

It might help to have a little reality check here. The place has been lived in for years by several different families. Yet the present wiring is probably 60s vintage and looks like it was wired by a gorilla high on crystal meth. I reckon I can do better; at the very least no worse.

Thanks for the Amazon hint, but I don't know which one to get. I need one which will go into the nuts and bolts of it. Some only really cover simple things like mending fuses and fitting extras sockets. Anything more complicated and you get told to find an electrician! I wont be doing industrial work or 3-phase. What would you recommend ?

The link to the tutorials is here:https://www.google.co.uk/search?newwindow=1&site=&source=hp&q=you+tube+worcester+college+hose+wiring&oq=you+tube+worcester+college+hose+wiring&gs_l=hp.3...518737.530324.0.533251.38.38.0.0.0.0.361.3768.1j24j0j2.27.0....0...1c.1.58.hp..16.22.3210.Rplk01kUPvk
(Ooops; I copied that link, but it doesn't look very good)

Yes: I do think I would be prepared to sign off the wiring I've done. I was a researcher and familiar with the need to record everything. I would keep a record of the measurements and wiring layouts. It may help shorten my prison sentence.

Bruce

aesmith · 18 Nov 2014

poriet said:
Yes: I do think I would be prepared to sign off the wiring I've done. I was a researcher and familiar with the need to record everything. I would keep a record of the measurements and wiring layouts. It may help shorten my prison sentence.

You can download the forms from here ..
http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/forms/

ban-all-sheds · 19 Nov 2014

poriet said:
OK Fair point, well made.
I rather think we are confusing 2 issues here: some of you say I shouldn't even try unless I've done the 17th Ed by going to college and am fully certified; some are saying that maybe it can be done by an amateur if he does his homework. What say you?

The latter.

I reckon I can do better; at the very least no worse.

I'm sure you could, but that's not what the regulations require.

Thanks for the Amazon hint, but I don't know which one to get. I need one which will go into the nuts and bolts of it. Some only really cover simple things like mending fuses and fitting extras sockets. Anything more complicated and you get told to find an electrician! I wont be doing industrial work or 3-phase. What would you recommend ?

The link to the tutorials is here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?new...7.0....0...1c.1.58.hp..16.22.3210.Rplk01kUPvk
(Ooops; I copied that link, but it doesn't look very good)

Well the link works, but I'm not sure it's doing the right thing:

Can't easily spot a link to their tutorial materials....

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House Rewire and new consumer unit

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