how do i change ceiling rose to spotlights/downlights?

[cooa99]

Thanks once again guys for the info.

I Inspected the ceiling rose and it is like picture 2 in Coljack's reply.

With RF Lighting's new coments about 12v, I am now confused as to which to go for i.e mains/12v. But I am assuming that the wiring is still all the same?


ban-all-shed, I am currently using a 20w energy saving bulb. I have not actually thought about the wattage I need.

I calculated that I will need 8 lights (not 9 lights because I have a staircase slope on one side) see attached diagram.

Untitled

• cooa99
• 24 Dec 2009
• 1

Red boxes show the new downlight, Green box shows existing ceiling rose

How do I daisy-chain the wires from the ceiling rose?

OK, I understand it will be 2 downlights per junction box meaning I need 4 Boxes.

But how do I then connect these boxes to the ceiling Rose?, will it be by
1) another 2 terminal boxes connecting joining up two terminal boxes... kinda a piramid structure till 1 box left at the top then connecting to the ceiling rose?
issue i see with this is that some of these boxes will be hidden away
2) Wire all 2 junction boxes to the ceiling rose?, thats kinda a lot o wiring to one point
3) wire ceiling rose to a 4 terminal junction box(assuming that there is such thing)?

cheers

 

[ColJack]

are you still going for the drop ceiling?

you will need to extend the wires to he ceiling rose as it will then become inaccessible ..

you use one of the white boxes steve posted..

you daisy chain the lights..
from the center go down, left, up, up, right, right, down, down.. using a JB at each point to connect the light to..
leave slack in the wire as the JB will need to be pulled out through the holw in the ceiling for testing on occasion..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

With RF Lighting's new coments about 12v, I am now confused as to which to go for i.e mains/12v. But I am assuming that the wiring is still all the same?

Yes, if you have one transformer per light.

ban-all-shed, I am currently using a 20w energy saving bulb.

How does using 160W to not light a room properly save energy when with the right sort of lighting you can do it properly using a lot less?

I have not actually thought about the wattage I need.

In that case have you thought about what you are going to do when you've done all this work, turned your ceiling into swiss cheese (which, BTW, will be as desirable a feature when you sell as stone cladding is today), and you find that the lighting in the room is carp?

How do I daisy-chain the wires from the ceiling rose?

You start at the rose and run the cable from there to the first light, and then the second, and then the third etc etc.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.

OK, I understand it will be 2 downlights per junction box meaning I need 4 Boxes.

Why 2 per junction box?

But how do I then connect these boxes to the ceiling Rose?, will it be by
1) another 2 terminal boxes connecting joining up two terminal boxes... kinda a piramid structure till 1 box left at the top then connecting to the ceiling rose?
issue i see with this is that some of these boxes will be hidden away
2) Wire all 2 junction boxes to the ceiling rose?, thats kinda a lot o wiring to one point
3) wire ceiling rose to a 4 terminal junction box(assuming that there is such thing)?

Why not start at the rose and run the cable from there to the first JB, and then the second, and then the third etc etc.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.

Have you chosen these useless and pointless lights yet? Do you actually need any junction boxes - can you not just run the cable directly in and out of them?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Have you thought about how you want these D/Ls switched?
I imagine you currently have only 1 switch, which is normal for 1 light, but since you will now have 8 lights, you might want more switches to give a few different options. (e.g a 3gang switch, each switch operating 2 or 3 lights) This could affect the overall way of wiring.

can't remember the manufacturer sorry, but i recall seeing some downlight fittings where the terminal box is big enough to carry two cables, (pfft, eureka, about time! ) so making additional JBs redundant. They might help.

You would still need 1 JB to carry the existing wiring at the rose.

 

[cooa99]

Steve's boxes looks good and slim, so will be using that
ok from coljack & bans-all-shed's comments, i should wire as in diagram below using steve's boxes and leaving slacks to allow pull outs?

Untitled

• cooa99
• 24 Dec 2009
• 1

The wiring patter means quite a lot of floorboard have to come out!, That makes the drop ceiling looking like an easier option !

mikhailfaradayski, i was not going to worry about switches but change existing single switch to a dimmable one. Problem is I have Plasterboard wall which means ripping a lot of board to do the job.

ban-all-sheds 160w is way too much!, i thought it was possible to get dimmable downlighters which are still energy saving or should i actually be looking at another way of creating more lights?


cooa99

 

[cooa99]

i did some more reading on downlights and 160wats is definately excessive!. what are my options?.

There seems to be some CFL 7w & 11w GU10's but apparently protude a bit in reccessed downlights housings

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

It was just a thought, if you have a plasterboard wall, it should be quite easy to chop a neat slot into and fill afterwards. Not too much trouble for someone prepared to rip up floor boards and pepper his ceiling with holes.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Steve's boxes looks good and slim, so will be using that
ok from coljack & bans-all-shed's comments, i should wire as in diagram below using steve's boxes and leaving slacks to allow pull outs?

The route the cable(s) take is best based on what's the most practical given where joists and floorboards are.

The wiring patter means quite a lot of floorboard have to come out!, That makes the drop ceiling looking like an easier option !

All that effort to allow you to install lighting which won't work well....

ban-all-sheds 160w is way too much!, i thought it was possible to get dimmable downlighters which are still energy saving or should i actually be looking at another way of creating more lights?

Some CFLs are dimmable, but that does not change the reality that if you try to light a room with narrow beams of light it won't work well and you'll need, comparatively, a lot. If you use 2" incandescent lamps you'll need more wattage than if you use a more appropriate type of incandescent lights. If you use 2" CFLs you'll need more wattage than if you use a more appropriate type of fluorescent lights. If you use 2" LEDs you'll need more wattage than if you use a more appropriate type of LED lights.

The problem is not the type of lamp, it's the size and beam pattern.

 

[cooa99]

All that effort to allow you to install lighting which won't work well....

I get the impression that you think the whole idea is naff , Im beginning to think so too only after thinking about the increase in watts. there has got to be an economical way of having cheap wattage mutiple lights even if it only has to be at a single location

 

[rockandroll]

All that effort to allow you to install lighting which won't work well....

I get the impression that you think the whole idea is naff , Im beginning to think so too only after thinking about the increase in watts. there has got to be an economical way of having cheap wattage mutiple lights even if it only has to be at a single location

you really shouldnt listen to B-A-S .......................

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

downlighters are like, say, pot noodles or block paved driveways. They might be disgusting/inefficient/ugly etc, but people still buy them!

Taste means different things to different folk learn to live with it.

 

[ColJack]

The wiring patter means quite a lot of floorboard have to come out!, That makes the drop ceiling looking like an easier option

you only need to pull up a single floorboard to get all of the lights in..
the one directly above the ceiling rose..
then you wire it in an H pattern..