How many lights would I need in this room - 41m2

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41m2

Semi basement.

Room height is standard 2.4m.

Looking to get recessed downlights - dimmable.

As room will be a relaxing/living room I am working LUX to be 120.

120 x 41m2 = 4920 lumens.

I have been having a look at these> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09WMB81TH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1TTI8VTQPBGFA&psc=1
7w/580Lm i would need approx 10 to cover area in question.

So 5 rows, with 2 lights in each - spaced 2m apart.
Will this be enough or should i up it to 3 lights in each row. 15 in total.

These are also available > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Recessed-Dimmable-Downlights-Adjustable-Spotlights/dp/B09F6K7R9X/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=alluso+led+downlight&qid=1687210361&sprefix=allus,aps,88&sr=8-9&th=1
5w/400Lm


Thoughts please?



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Why is the 12 pack of metal surround downlights dearer than two packs of six??........
 
I know lumens should tell you how much light the units give out, so you should be able to calculate size required, however much depends on walls, floor, and ceiling and how they reflect the light.

My old house had a kitchen extension, never really thought about it when it was built, just stuck up a second hand 65 watt fluorescent lamp, (around the 6000 lumen mark) these fat tubes were discontinued, so fitted 58 watt tubes, which were OK until solar panels were fitted to some near by homes, and the voltage dropped to 230 volt, it had been around 245 volt, this tipped the balance, and the old ballast either needed to be changed, or I could fit LED, being a lazy man, I fitted the LED tube, the output dropped to around 2200 lumen, also input dropped to 24 watt, however it was still ample, in the main we fitted fluorescents to get spread of light, not for the amount of light.

House was taken over and eventually sold to my son. He swapped the LED tube for I think 16 down lights, around 3.5 watt each, so from 2200 lumen to 255 x 16 = 4080 lumen so back to original output of fluorescent tube, but in real terms no better than the old LED tube light output wise, just looked better. And 56 watt, which compared with the fluorescent was not as many lumen per watt as the 58 watt fluorescent, and they did not seem as bright.

Only way I have of really working out how bright a room is to take a photo and see the camera settings, as to the human eye the colour temperature can make a room seem darker or brighter, only when you try reading do you realise the room is not really bright enough.

My old bedroom had two GU10 lights either side of the bed head for reading in bed, shining down as designed they did not really light the room much, but swivel them and shine them onto the white ceiling they lit the room well.

So in the main we have to work with what the home designer fitted however many years ago it was built or rewired, my living room has a single ceiling rose, Ceiling rose.jpg as does my dinning room, so can swap the two chandeliers with ease, but 8 x 6 watt SES candle bulbs do not really light the room well enough, so I have to supplement the lighting with display cabinet lights, and up lighters, and spot lights on standard lamp bases. But we don't turn all on every time we use the room, I note you are thinking of dimmer switches, but with a multi function room likely you will need to turn some lights off to watch TV but have others on to read at the bar, I noted when we moved to compact fluorescents that in places like Turkey they would split the lighting 1/3 and 2/3 so three levels of lighting without using dimmer switches.
 
Only way I have of really working out how bright a room is to take a photo and see the camera settings, as to the human eye the colour temperature can make a room seem darker or brighter, only when you try reading do you realise the room is not really bright enough.
It's not really any figures or measurements that matter. The "only way" of determining whether the degree of illumination is adequate (or too great) for the intended purpose relates to the perception of the brightness by human beings, with human eyes, who are to occupy and use the room.

Kind Regards, John
 
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It's not really any figures or measurements that matter. The "only way" of determining whether the degree of illumination is adequate (or too great) for the intended purpose relates to the perception of the brightness by human beings, with human eyes, who are to occupy and use the room.

Kind Regards, John
I agree with you to an extent, however when I moved in last house from compact fluorescent to LED we had 10 x 8 watt CFL and we went to 10 x 3 watt LED candle, it seemed brighter, but as time went one we realised we could not read in the room, so then went to 10 x 5 watt golf ball lamps also LED, over this time I had taken photos, and in the Meta Data of the photos is stored the settings the camera used, and I realised how in spite of the 3 watt seeming brighter at first to the 8 watt CFL when we looked at the Meta Data they were not as bright, and the 5 watt were nearer to the original settings.

I will assume it was the colour temperature that caused us to think the 3 watt LED were brighter than the 8 watt CFL plus the CFL had likely dimmed with age.

My sons down lights do look better than the old fluorescent tube, 102 Kitchen Bike.jpg but clearly rather a high ceiling to be able to mount the bike there, and the actual light in the room is no better than with the 24 watt LED replacement tube, but counting lumen it should be far better, and watts wise same as fluorescent tube but less light.

I made a mistake at work, a shed with 25 foot to roof was lit well with low bay lights, tried to use same lights in shed with 10 foot roof, and the fluorescent fittings were better, working out lighting is not easy, and I have got it wrong.
 
I am working LUX to be 120.
That seems woefully inadequate for any room.

It's also unlikely that the same level of illumination is appropriate for every area of a multi purpose space, or having a single fixed level of lighting.
In any event, single lights 2m apart will not provide anything like even illumination.

Suggest looking for lighting from a reputable supplier, rather than random direct Chinese imports on Amazon.
 
That seems woefully inadequate for any room.
It is low, but The OP peesumably has some idea about the level of lighting he wants in his "relaxinf/living" room?
It's also unlikely that the same level of illumination is appropriate for every area of a multi purpose space, or having a single fixed level of lighting.
Agreed, but, to be fair, he wrote ..
.... Looking to get recessed downlights - dimmable.

Kind Regards, John
 
Surely the answer is to put in more than you think you will need, but have them switched in banks so you can choose how many are on or off at any time
 
I agree with you to an extent, ...
I'm not too sure why you say "to an extent", since you appear to illustrate my point when you go on to say ..
.... however when I moved in last house from compact fluorescent to LED we had 10 x 8 watt CFL and we went to 10 x 3 watt LED candle, it seemed brighter, but as time went one we realised we could not read in the room ....
What surely matters is that you "realised that you could not read in the room", regardless of any 'numbers'. Perhaps more to the point, such perceptions are individual/personal things - such that, with the same 'numbers', a different person might have found that they could read in the room.

Kind Regards, John
 
Surely the answer is to put in more than you think you will need, but have them switched in banks so you can choose how many are on or off at any time
Yes, that and/or dimmer(s) (albeit the latter can be a nightmare with LEDs!).

Also, it's quite often appropriate to have quite low levels of 'background' lighting, supplemented by other lighting for activities such as reading or 'working' when needed.

Kind Regards, John
 
I am myself looking on better control of lights, in the main we walk into a room so want a switch at the entrance, but we also as evening arrives or we change what we are doing want to change lighting levels.

However how to change lighting levels depends on many things. Since I have Nest Mini's these seem to be an ideal way to adjust light when already relaxing in the room, my son uses Alexa which is basic same idea, remote controls are better than using the phone as anyone can use them, but cost is also a consideration, at around £9 each for the cheapest smart bulb, having eight of them gets expensive, so a smart switch is likely cheaper, but that does not allow you to adjust colour, same applies dimming a bulb, using smart bulbs you can also adjust colour temperature which you can't do with a smart dimmer or switch.

I used a smart relay with the intention of using a remote control (zigbee) but found the remote would work bulbs but not relay, the relay should mean I can use wall switch, phone, or voice, but the wall switch seems to have moods, will work one day then not the next.

Watching the TV a Freddy Boswell look alike switches lights on/off by having a smart meter fitted, and clapping hands, don't think that will really work, and if it did any loud noise could also switch lights on/off, but the point is there are many misleading adverts saying what products will do. I am looking at Tapo (TP Link) at the moment, as claims seem good, having buttons to turn lights on/off seems good, but as yet not tried, had Energenie MiHome which 3 or of 5 have failed, so it gets expensive, I think the problem was down to having no neutrals and the small current always going through the bulbs, and the Tapo light switches have batteries instead, so likely better.

The same problem with dimming switches with no neutral, BA22d bulbs have worked for me OK, but G9 was a night mare, and GU10 also had some problems, the main thing is flicker, there are ways around not switching off, but even with tungsten bulbs flicker with dimming switches could be a problem, the coiled coil has some inductance which messes up the switch, and with LED it can affect some people but not all, I swapped my living room bulbs and daughter has stopped complaining, but since they did not give me headaches, it was a bit hit and miss. Not complaints as yet from the use of smart bulbs.

All I can do is wish you luck, as it seems more down to luck than design as to if they work as one designs them to. And after doing a lot of work to fit under counter lamps, I have never once seen my wife use them, and they use voice control she does not even have to walk to the switch.

The display cabinet lights have worked well, 20230227_163006_2.jpg can also change colour, but they give the extra light when needed that end of the room, without looking like an after thought, which they are, the room lighting is inadequate for such a large room, but getting extra ceiling lights installed will be a big job. There is around 30 watt of LED lighting in those cabinets if turned up full, but in the main set for mood lighting, 20230227_170703_1.jpgone of the advantages of using smart lights, it can change what it does. I will however admit the first attempt with Ikea lamps was a failure.

And this is a problem, I have a draw full of bulbs, either still in packets, or only used for a short time, so nearly new, which were too small or replaced with smart versions, or had a shimmer when used with smart switch, or bought while we could still get tungsten for lamps that can't use LED, or removed when better lamps fitted. The experts on lighting get paid a lot of money to get it right first time.
 
I am myself looking on better control of lights, in the main we walk into a room so want a switch at the entrance, but we also as evening arrives or we change what we are doing want to change lighting levels.
That can theoretically be achieved with dimmers (if you can get them to work satisfactorily with LEDs!) and/or having multiple lights, or banks of lights separately switched. Furthermore, as I recently said, one should probably consider having a relatively low level of 'background lighting' ('switched at the entrance'), supplemented by other sources (table/standard/wall/spot etc.) lights when one wishes to use the room for specific purposes (reading or whatever).

Any/all of that can be done without resort to new-fangled technologies (which seem to benefit those who manufacture and sell them, more than anyone else :) ).

Kind Regards, John
 

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