How to change a light bulb, disposable LED light fittings.

[frank999]

WTF.

We go from interchangable Incandescent/Halogen disposable bulbs - to modern super energy efficient LED fittings, however in the great plan someone forgot to add the ability to just swap out the LED element in the event of failure, so now when the unit fails someone has to get up a ladder with tools, unravel cable from various conduits, unscrew or bolt the whole unit, then that carefully constructed pile of metal, glass, wire and circuitry goes off to either a) landfill, or b) inefficient WEE recycling. In addition he/she then needs to travel to source a replacement, and go fix it up.

Is this such a lamps destiny, or can it be salvaged, any thoughts to cirumvent such madness.

These two destined for an early grave otherwise:

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

What's the problem? The LED's usually outlast the whole fitting anyway, I have yet to suffer any LED failure, despite most of mine being replaceable, with one single exception which was my own fault.

 

[ericmark]

I had a quartz lamp fitting with an LED replacement tube, it lasted about 6 months, water got in, I was able to drill a drain hole and dried out, and got running again, but the fitting was clearly designed for a hot bulb which would dry out any water ingress.

Also it cost about double the cost of an integrated unit.

The main problem is if an integrated unit fails, how do you know which bit has failed?

I remember when they stopped making a Morris Minor, some one built one from parts, at around 5 times the pre assembled cost, the same it likely true with the lamp.

 

[frank999]

What's the problem? The LED's usually outlast the whole fitting anyway
I agree - if that were the case, but these failed after only 18 months, for my sins the large lamp was a LAP product - but still, it shouldn't fail after such a short time. What brand do you install, and that has a replacable LED element ? Have I simply been unlucky ?

The main problem is if an integrated unit fails, how do you know which bit has failed?
A flourescent fitting has a starter and tube, but you don't throw away the whole light fitting simply because either the starter or tube has expired.

If you could compare the pile of prematurely expired LED flood lights, to an equal number of Halogen Bulbs, I am sure the difference would be quite stark, seems woefully wasteful of resources and peoples time.

 

[JohnW2]

What's the problem? The LED's usually outlast the whole fitting anyway
I agree - if that were the case, but these failed after only 18 months, for my sins the large lamp was a LAP product - but still, it shouldn't fail after such a short time. What brand do you install, and that has a replacable LED element ? Have I simply been unlucky ?

Quite probably, yes.

As I often have to remind people, the life expectancies quoted for things like bulbs/lamps are median times, and tell one very little about the likelihood of early failures.

For example, if the (median) life expectancy is quoted as, say, 10,000 hours, then it means that if one has a batch of them, then half would be expected to last for at least 10,000 hours. However, it tells one nothing about the other half - even if half of them all failed after just 10 hours use (but the other half lasted at least 10,000 hours), the (median) survival would still be 10,000 hours.

So, if one is talking about just one item, or a small number of items, then it is quite possible to be ';unlucky', without there being anything incorrect about the quoted 'life expectancy'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldbutnotdead]

You may find it's the infrared detector bit that has gone fubar (I had a cheap LAP from Screwfix & that's what happened to that one). You can get standalone pir units but they're about the same cost as the whole unit- advantage with the standalone is you can put it where it'll detect reliably & have the lamp where it'll light properly.
Re the energy debt incurred by manufacture of all that throwaway ket- yes totally with you. But especially nowadays you personally will save substantially using a 20w LED instead of a 300w sunflood.

 

[ericmark]

Have I simply been unlucky ?

That has been asked many times, my last house I went all LED early on, I had some very cheap pound world 0.58 watt MR16's fail, but really only toys, and a 22 watt LED replacement for my fluorescent tube fail, rather annoying when it did not last as long as the fluorescent tubes, but as @JohnW2 points out life calculated as a median.

On moving here I have had I think 3 GU10's fail, and one G9, so doing well really, but my son who has my old house, lost around 16 GU10's. The question is why?
1) Poor quality
2) Spikes
He does not have a SPD fitted, I do. But how far does one go? This lamp which failed on me has I find on opening plug in modules, can't really believe a GU10 is so complex inside, OK not a cheap one, cost around £7 and it could before it failed dim and change colour.

But this

lamp from screwfix is £8.50 so around same price as the GU10 bulb, I would not dream of repairing the bulb, although I did repair a G9 bulb when I found a dry joint, but if willing to dump the bulb, why not dump whole lamp?

The R7s bulb

for the old quartz lamp costs £10, the larger output versions £16 so seems clear why we can't repair, bits cost more than the lamp.

Out of interest have you got a SPD fitted?

 

[frank999]

I guess whether i have been unlucky or not is not my main gripe, I feel a sense of indignation at having to dispose of such a large chuck of metal, glass, wire, when really its only the smaller element/circuits that have failed.

It seems such a waste of rescources, how many million of these globally will be failing.

BC and ES fittings seem standard for internal light fittings, why not have something similar for flood lights, ok the unit will probably be more complex as its driving a higher lumen fitting, but isn't that better than 'dumping' the whole lamp.

Maybe I am being overly concerned, and its the way of the world, the free market providing goods as cheaply as it can, there is no great financial loss to me personally, but as we know fridge manufacturers make their compressors completely unservicable - resulting in often perfectly good units being sent to scrap years before they should be.
Is it similar to supermarket packaging, when its done its one use job, its someone elses problem, and often somewhere elses problem ... to deal with.

 

[JohnW2]

That has been asked many times, my last house I went all LED early on, I had some very cheap pound world 0.58 watt MR16's fail, but really only toys, and a 22 watt LED replacement for my fluorescent tube fail, rather annoying when it did not last as long as the fluorescent tubes, but as @JohnW2 points out life calculated as a median.

On moving here I have had I think 3 GU10's fail, and one G9, so doing well really, but my son who has my old house, lost around 16 GU10's. The question is why?
1) Poor quality

... or just 'bad luck'. As I wrote above, one expects half of a number of LEDs to fail before they reach their quoted 'life expectancy', and there's nothing to say that those failures might not be 'very early' ones'.

2) Spikes
Out of interest have you got a SPD fitted?

That again Do you really believe that it is at all likely that 'spikes' commonly (if ever) result in failure of LEDs? My house is full of countless electronic things which one would expect to be at least as susceptible to 'spikes' as LEDs but, as I've said, I've had virtually no 'premature failures' in decades.

I remain unconvinced that, at least in domestic settings, SPDs benefit anyone other than those who manufacture, sell and install the devices

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I guess whether i have been unlucky or not is not my main gripe, I feel a sense of indignation at having to dispose of such a large chuck of metal, glass, wire, when really its only the smaller element/circuits that have failed. ... It seems such a waste of rescources, how many million of these globally will be failing.

Very valid concerns, but it's just the tip of a very large iceberg. For decades we have been moving progressively and relentlessly in the direction of a "throw away society/culture". In the great majority of fields, 'repair' of broken items doesn't happen at all or else consists of replacement of substantial 'modules' within the item, with no attempt to actually repair them. That approach can certainly be (financially) 'cost-effective' - and, in at least some (probably not many!) situations, can even be environmentally preferable.

I was brought up in the era when socks with holes were darned (or other clothes repaired, shoes were 're-soled' and small failed components within domestic appliances whatever were replaced (and even when, in hospitals, scalpel blades and injection needles etc. in hospitals were re-sharpened) - but I can't see those days ever returning.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scbk]

I have replaced drivers and chips on LED floodlights before. Multimeter, soldering iron, youtube and ebay is what you need.
Some of the floodlights are like triggers broom, the only original part is the casing


I agree about led integrated lights though. Would rather have an old fashioned bulkhead light where I can put in the LED bulb of my choosing, than a similar bulkhead light sealed up with integrated LED.


I've seen some of the local electricians are very keen on fitting sealed LED units, keeps them in a job for life!! And some of the choices are hideous, in historic buildings!

 

[333rocky333]

Maybe just the sensors have failed, you could try bypassing the sensor and use them as floodlights, with a lead and a plug on they may come in handy

 

[frank999]

In the great majority of fields, 'repair' of broken items doesn't happen at all
So progress brings us another box to pile up at the 'recycling' centre, along with all the TV's, media players, and fridges ... grim.

one expects half of a number of LEDs to fail before they reach their quoted 'life expectancy'
and
local electricians are very keen on fitting sealed LED units, keeps them in a job for life!!
Can you buy anything but a sealed unit these days, the sparkies must be well pleased.

you could try bypassing the sensor and use them as floodlights
Yes you could do that with old failed Halogen units, good thought.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

one expects half of a number of LEDs to fail before they reach their quoted 'life expectancy'
and
local electricians are very keen on fitting sealed LED units, keeps them in a job for life!!
Can you buy anything but a sealed unit these days, the sparkies must be well pleased.

I can see the advantage of fully sealed units, for outdoor use, the big failure point of the older types of fittings, was moisture ingress. I bought such an LED fitting a few months ago, with built in PIR, in particular - I made sure it was a sealed unit, for durability. To look at, its just an entirely flat panel with the glass/lens sealed to the base, rather like an over sized Iphone. 20w LED, though it does seem much brighter, and £20. Unlike the Q./A tube lamps, which were almost guaranteed to leak, the Q/A lamp fail and the screws to seize. I fully expect this one to more than pay for itself and still have a reasonable chance of being working in ten years and that ignoring the energy saving.

 

[frank999]

20w LED, though it does seem much brighter,
BigCliveDotcom did a YouTube on the inverse of this very issue, ie advertised vs actual lumen output, its in one of these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/@bigclivedotcom/search?query=floodlight:

But I think it might be this one:
Another cheap eBay LED floodlight. Is it really going to be 50W?

And another for good measure:

Big Clive always sounds like he has a Werthers Original sliding around the inside of his mouth whilst narrating ... very entertaining man regardless ...