How to use 'deadly force - and get away with it.

[Odds]

The argument is that, when Renee first set off forwards, the agent couldn't know which way she would be turning, or how slowly she would be driving. His defenders say that, for all he knew, she might have floored the throttle and driven straight at him.

In my foundry days you quickly learned to watch closely when a fork-lift driver was turning by the placement of his hands on the wheel. A more observant, less emotionally distracted, agent would've seen she was turning away from him.

So, the first shot might have been justifiable. But the second and third shots definitely were not justifiable. This is what I have been saying all along.

The vehicle was already past him, leaving the agent clear of danger, when he fired the 2nd and 3rd shots; clearly without control of his actions in pulling the trigger again and then once again. She was obviously not a threat.

From the limited autopsy results released so far, it looks like the third shot is the one which killed her. There is clearly no reason for that third shot. Unless you accept MBK's argument that the agent had to make sure Renee was dead in order to stop her being a danger to other road users.

I do not accept she was a danger to anyone, at any time leading up to the first shot and at the end of the sequence of shots which killed her in cold blood. Describing her as 'a domestic terrorist', is an insulting and contemptible reaction by the administration had supporters of the ICE agents actions.

 

[motorbiking]

Not an argument I’ve made at all.

Is there any need for another thread discussing this ?

 

[Odds]

Not an argument I’ve made at all.

Is there any need for another thread discussing this ?

Considering new information after the event is worthwhile, i think, yes.

 

[MNW67]

Not an argument I’ve made at all.

Is there any need for another thread discussing this ?

You did say in one post that, even though the agent himself was in no danger by the time of the second and third shots, because Renee was wounded she was still a danger to other road users, and that is why he was justified in continuing firing.

 

[MNW67]

Of necessity. America is in national emergency.

There is no emergency. The USA is a massive country. They have accepted illegal immigration with a nod and a wink for decades. It has benefitted both sides. In addition, illegal immigrants are much less likely to commit crimes than US citizens.

 

[Highway Man]

Not an argument I’ve made at all.

Is there any need for another thread discussing this ?

None what so ever, this is just a thread for losers that cannot accept the verdict and the law.

 

[Odds]

The Department of Homeland Security, the federal body in charge of ICE, Customs and Border Protection and other federal law enforcement bodies, has a Use of Force policy that was amended in 2023 following an Executive Order issued by the Joe Biden administration. This policy, which is the most recent, outlines mandatory training on de-escalation as part of an annual training on each agency’s respective use-of-force policies. The annual training is also meant to include “related legal updates” and “discretion in using deadly force and less than lethal force”.
.
The question of whether or not the ICE agents made any attempt to de-escalate the situation is open to interpretation but from what i've seen, they don't make much of an effort.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Moral of the story - don't take a car to a gun fight.

 

[Highway Man]

The Department of Homeland Security, the federal body in charge of ICE, Customs and Border Protection and other federal law enforcement bodies, has a Use of Force policy that was amended in 2023 following an Executive Order issued by the Joe Biden administration. This policy, which is the most recent, outlines mandatory training on de-escalation as part of an annual training on each agency’s respective use-of-force policies. The annual training is also meant to include “related legal updates” and “discretion in using deadly force and less than lethal force”.
.
The question of whether or not the ICE agents made any attempt to de-escalate the situation is open to interpretation but from what i've seen, they don't make much of an effort.

Your opinion is flawed and irrelevant

 

[SPLINE]

illegal immigrants are much less likely to commit crimes

Do you realise what you are saying?

 

[MNW67]

Do you realise what you are saying?

I am just following the research. I know that is considered very old fashioned these days:

AI Overview

Scholarly consensus and studies consistently indicate that undocumented immigrants in the U.S. are less likely to commit crimes compared to native-born citizens. Data from Texas, for instance, shows arrest rates for violent and drug crimes among undocumented individuals are less than half those of native-born citizens.

Key findings regarding this topic include:

• Lower Crime Rates: Research indicates that undocumented immigrants are, on average, less likely to commit violent, drug, or property crimes than native-born citizens.

 

[SPLINE]

MNW can you stop with the AI quotes already?

AI is not the truth; it is simply another search engine with a heavy left-wing bias.

 

[motorbiking]

He might ask it:

What is the demographic of US prisons?
Are non US citizens over represented in US prisons?

He won’t much like the answer.

 

[MNW67]

He might ask it:

What is the demographic of US prisons?
Are non US citizens over represented in US prisons?

He won’t much like the answer.

AI Overview

The evidence suggests that undocumented immigrants generally have lower incarceration rates than native-born Americans.

 

[MNW67]

MNW can you stop with the AI quotes already?

It is a very useful way of summarising disparate information from the internet. Much more informative than one of your ridiculously dull podcasts, featuring nitwit of the day.