How to work out Combi kW size ?

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Hi,

I have a bungalow ( one floor only ).

Have a 36kw Grant Votrex Combination oil fired boiler.

Currently have 15 rads ( mostly large surface area ).

Want to put a second floor above first floor ( lift the roof ).

Estimate heating capacity might double. Though dunno really.

How do I calculate total heating capacity for a combi for the whole two levels ?

Do I just add another heating circuit and another boiler ?

Thanks

John
 
Thanks Sooey,

It's currently a large 6 bed bungalow.
I want to lift the roof and add 7 extra beds with ensuite and 2 extra public rooms on the new second level. So the 36kw combi would have to manage

Level 1 ( EXISTING )
o Kitchen ( very large )
o Galley
o Breakfast room ( large )
o Living room ( very large )
o 6 bedrooms
o 2 bathrooms

Level 2 ( PROPOSED )
o 2 new public rooms +
o 7 new bed rooms
o 5+ new extra ensuite

Still ok ?

Thank you

John
 
Sounds like you will live in a mansion. :lol:
Seriously though are you turning it into some sort of guest house?
Whatever, the heating requirements are the least of your worries. the combi will be woefully inadequate for the hot water.
 
Thank you Sooey,

Yes it will be a boarding house.

How do I work out what the Kw requirement for the hot water and heating is from a oil fired combi ?

Do I add a combi and a new circuit or get a new larger one ?

Thank you

John
 
You don't want a combi, you will need stored hot water. And with the money you are spending you need to get it designed in professionally at an early stage.
 
... all those ensuites create a cleaning nightmare ... so there is a good possibility that the ensuites will dissappear and be replaced by 2 communal toilets on the upper floor ... does that change things ?

How do I work out Kw capacity for both with and without the ensuites ?
 
You need to get someone who understands heating design - this does not mean you lookup "plumber" in the directory. Some plumbers can also design systems, many cannot.

You have two things to consider :

1) The heating load. There are well established ways to calculate that - some guess based on size and assumptions about losses, others are more scientific and use calculations based on size and thermal insulation (U) values - your architect will be able to do that for you assuming you employ a competent one (he'll be doing most of the calcs anyway to satisfy building regs I believe).

2) The DHW load.
Here you don't work out a kW load, you need to guesstimate the water requirement and then you can apply trade offs between instantaneous power available and storage requirements. Eg, if you have a lot of heating capacity available, and the right sort of tank, then you can use smaller tanks. Alternatively, you can have larger tanks (to satisfy demand) and reheat them with less power over a longer period. Don't forget that some people will be used to long power showers - so across all the rooms you could have a lot of hot water demand (I've stayed in hotels where they've found out the hard way that their system is inadequate).

Personally, on the basis that boilers do break down, I'd install a pair so you have some redundancy. Also, consider a buffer tank and modulating pump (or pumps) - this makes a big difference to noise as the buffer will decouple the flow rate requirement (high) through the boiler from the flow rate requirement (may be low in warmer weather) through the rads.
But a good heating designer will be able to advice on all this - and explain the different options and the pros/cons of each. There are many options - and things like measuring your dynamic cold water flow rate and checking your gas supply capacity will also feed into the decisions - eg it's no use designing for a high power rapid reheat DHW system if the gas supply isn't up to the peak demands.
 
A Combi boiler in this scenario will NOT BE FIT FOR PURPOSE!! do not go there!! you will need a good supply of stored hot water (unvented cylinders linked to an accumulator will ensure multiple hot weater outlets can be supplied simultainiously)

P.S. guests like an en-suite!! I would not stay in a B&B that had shared facilites in the 21st century!! :wink:
 
Its no use designing for a high power rapid reheat DHW system if the gas supply isint up to it.........or if the OP is running his combi on oil but hey ho what do stupid plumbers know :roll:
 
One way to reduce hot water demand is to ensure that lower flow rate shower heads are fitted. Not 16 li/min rain showers!

A very rough rule of thumb is to have stored water with 50 li plus 50 li extra for each person.

Your combi could provide all the heating and stored hot water although a second boiler would be useful redundancy to at least heat the hot water. It would be sensible to keep the combi to supply the owners flat area so the stored water did not need to be heated when the place is empty during the winter ( if thats likely ).

Most prospective B&B owners totally over estimate the occupancy and many inexperienced "just retired" projects fail. Watch the Hotel Inspector series with Ruth Badger!

To minimise the significant heating costs you need to very carefully consider the likely business income and what can be afforded.

A friend ran a very successful six bed guesthouse in Cornwall. He sold it as a step towards retirement about 1997 and the purchasers spent about £100k adding a further six bedrooms. They did not provide evening meals as my friend had done.

It was a business disaster! My friend had full occupation for over six months in the year. The new owners had very few! A year later it was auctioned by the bank and sold for about the same price my friend had received! he did not buy it back as the catering for the dinners was very labour intensive.

Tony
 

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