I just want a simple garage.. (planning permission nightmare)

[Dontblamethetools]

I hope you're all well. Some may remember this issue from a few months back. I thought I'd post a fresh thread as it's been a few months. So to sum up the position so far.. I submitted an application for single garage on 10th July 2020. The application was accepted and I was expecting an answer early September. The planning officer contacted me to say she/they are happy with the dimensions and appearance of the proposal and she had recommended it for approval. The only issue being, that she had overlooked notifying the highways department, but phrased this as a technicality. She asked me to extend the deadline for 5 weeks. Around 6 weeks later she contacted me to say there had been an objection raised with the highways department, she basically couldn’t really explain what the issue was but spoke about some general concerns such as if anyone else was to block the entrance to the garage.. I told her this was not a concern to me and she asked me to confirm everything I’d discussed with her in an email so she could discuss with her manager. At the time she did say if the building was for storage or another use besides a garage then they’d have no issue with it. I’ve not heard back since, I’ve tried to call her a couple of times without success. It’s now over 7 months since I applied.


Fast forward to today, I’ve received a one-liner email which says “as the application has now expired – please confirm you wish to withdraw the application.” Which to me seems ridiculous. She did say on the initial call that “they try to work with people to overcome any issues” and from what I’ve read that’s what I thought they should do.


It would seem that the issue is with the Highway’s objection, however I’ve no idea how there could possibly be any objection from the Highway department. Basically my house shares a driveway with 2 other houses, this is a private strip of land owned and maintained by the three houses. It’s already established and designated as a driveway. This strip of land is around 25 meters long. The garage will be positioned at the furthest end away from the adjoining road. The area the garage will be built is used as parking and is shown on the deeds as such, therefore I’ve no idea how this could be of any concern to the Highways department..


I’m now looking for advice on how best to play this. The way I see my options are as below. I’d like to know if I understand my options correctly or of course if there maybe any other suggestions.


Option 1 – Appeal to secretary of state due to non-determination within 8 weeks


Option 2 – Withdraw the application. This will keep the planners happy, improve their stats, save them work and make the headache disappear.. I’d get a free go with another application, however I’d still have no idea what the issue is (so another application would be pointless).


Option 3 – Don’t withdraw and let them issue a refusal notice. At least I’ll know what the issue is, and from what I can see I’d still get a free go? Or the chance to appeal.


Option 4 – Ask them to send it to committee for decision?


I’ve also found that I should now be entitled to a fee refund as it’s gone over 6 months, although it seems I won’t get this if I appeal, which seems crazy to me. Am I right to think I’d still get a free go if I get a refund, I can’t see why not as the purpose of the refund is to encourage them to handle things on time.

 

[Nakajo]

Win, lose or draw, you always get a free go, if the scheme is sufficiently similar to the previous. I would take the refusal, and, if the reason is 'unreasonable', appeal to the planning inspectorate. If the reason is something you think you can address, then do so and resubmit. There is no option where time is your friend unfortunately

 

[^woody^]

Highways objection is invariably to do with visibility splays (sight lines) when exiting the garage or land in front of it.

Do they know it's a private road and highways have no jurisdiction over it? Have you confirmed that both planners and highways know that?

If you are confident that the garage meets planning policy, and that highways issues don't apply then appeal for non determination.

If not, change the garage door for a normal door so can't be used by vehicles and change the description?

 

[Dontblamethetools]

Win, lose or draw, you always get a free go, if the scheme is sufficiently similar to the previous. I would take the refusal, and, if the reason is 'unreasonable', appeal to the planning inspectorate. If the reason is something you think you can address, then do so and resubmit. There is no option where time is your friend unfortunately

That's good to know. In this case it seems to me there are very few circumstances where withdrawal will benefit the applicant. I also get the sense that councils all too often try to pursuade the applicant to withdraw. It seems their own interests come above the interests of the applicant.

 

[Dontblamethetools]

Highways objection is invariably to do with visibility splays (sight lines) when exiting the garage or land in front of it.

Do they know it's a private road and highways have no jurisdiction over it? Have you confirmed that both planners and highways know that?

If you are confident that the garage meets planning policy, and that highways issues don't apply then appeal for non determination.

If not, change the garage door for a normal door so can't be used by vehicles and change the description?

This is going to sound a little crazy but I'm not sure they do realise that the 20 meters of land that leads to the garage is private and should be of no concern to Highways. I have tried to explain this to them very clearly both over the phone and through email. I've sent them copies of the deeds, but I'm not sure they understand. The other possibility is they're concerned about right of way disputes/access disputes that may come later from the 2 neighbouring properties. The other 2 properties own the land that needs to be crossed to access the garage but the right of vehicular access is protected by a covenant. I'd have thought that this would have no concern to the planners as it's not within their remit to consider boundary disputes and the like. Whatever happens in the future e.g the neighbour decides to block access or even build their own garage right upto my garage door, should be my issue and not of their concern. Even if I don't build a garage and the neighbour plans to build anything blocking my current parking spaces, I'd still prevent them from doing so. They may well be of the opinion that if they grant permission to my garage that they then wouldn't be in a position to grant the neighbour to build a garage that would block my access, however they could never do this anyway. I've told them that I wouldn't care if they gave the neighbour planning permission to build right upto my garage door as I'd simply enforce the covenant which overrides any planning permission. They can give the nighbour permission to extend into my garden if they want, I simply don't care, the fact is I'd prevent them from doing so by legal means that have more power than planning permission. This all fits in the same category as boundary type disputes to me, that shouldn't be of their concern. I should make it clear that the area that I'm planning to build on is my land and the neighbours have no rights of access/covenant etc (as mine is the end house, they've no reason to require access. The land I'm crossing belongs to the neighbours however I have the benefit of a covenant proventing them from obstucting my access in any way whatsoever.

I'm thinking at the moment, firstly ask for a fee refund as it's way over 6 months. Secondly ask them to let the committee decide as if the issue is related to any access disputes then hopefully there maybe enough sense/knowledge in the committee to point out that this should be nothing to do with them. If that fails, let them issue a refusal that sets out the reasons why. I can then either appeal or go again with a free go.

Thanks again for the advice

 

[Dontblamethetools]

I have an update. I've just managed to speak to the planner and I seem to be in a very strange situation. The planner is happy with the proposal, however the issue is that Highways will not support the application. I've clarified that they do know the entrance to the garage is private land. I've been told Highways will not support it as the opening to the garage opens onto shared land..

The crazy thing is they're saying because they're not sure on the legalities (I'm not sure what legalities they're talking about) they can't support it. I'd expect from a council that if they're "not sure" then they'd find out, rather than refusing an application on the gounds of being "not sure". I guess it could be argued that it's my responsibility to prove to them there is no legal issue, but I think I already have done..

Well the purpose of applying for a garage is because I wanted.. a GARAGE.. it seems now the options I have are to either fight this with an appeal, as submitting a new application will be pointless, and the appeal is also probably pointless.. or to build something that is not a garage which will lose me a parking space I'll still be without a garage.. or to just reduce the height to under 2.5m and build under permitted development (probably end up with the 2.5m option). I suppose another option is just build it anyway..

 

[^woody^]

've clarified that they do know the entrance to the garage is private land

It's not the entrance to the garage that is the issue, that's clearly private land, but the actual driveway that is the issue.

You need to get some legal advice on whether the Highways Dept can comment on works related to non-adopted roads. I've always understood that as they have no duties to private roads they can not enforce or insist on any particular standard as they would with public roads that they are bound by law to maintain.

 

[Dontblamethetools]

Thanks Woody. I'd have thought the same. I'll look into taking some legal advice, tbh it's probably not worth the expense. I may well appeal stating the fact that the existing driveway that is currently in use for parking for 3 properties, correctly documented and no proposal to change the existing setup should have nothing to do with Highways. Let them fight the case for why they believe it is. If that doesn't go my way I think I can still have "a free go"

What is a concern to me now is, if I build to the 2.5m under permitted development, with the garage door opening directly onto the shared driveway - I wouldn't have thought the council could claim it's not permitted development?

Another thing is, they'll be almost no chance of getting a lawful development certificate if I do this?

Such a crazy scenario

 

[^woody^]

I'll look into taking some legal advice, tbh it's probably not worth the expense.

It doesn't need to be formal paid for legal advice.

You could just ask the council what their powers are, that will be free. Otherwise there's Google, or perhaps there is free advice attached to your home insurance.

 

[Dontblamethetools]

It's not the entrance to the garage that is the issue, that's clearly private land, but the actual driveway that is the issue.

You need to get some legal advice on whether the Highways Dept can comment on works related to non-adopted roads. I've always understood that as they have no duties to private roads they can not enforce or insist on any particular standard as they would with public roads that they are bound by law to maintain.

I think you're spot on with this. On doing some further research it seems there is much confusion as to what is and what is not a Highway. It seems councils often assume private driveways to be "Highways", on reading several definitions used for planning purposes I had started to question myself whether my shared accessway could be considered a Highway for this purpose, but on doing further research I am absolutely sure the land forming my accessway is definately not a "Highway".

I now think there are only 3 possibilities

1) Despite speaking with the planning officer and confirming it is a private accessway - they still consider it a "Highway" - in which case this shouldn't be so difficult to overcome.
2) They realise it's not a Highway but they're concerned about the existing set-up where it joins the actual Highway - Again I can't imagine this can be an issue, there are 3 houses using this and this issue would have nothing to do with the proposed garage.
3) There is something I'm missing in relation to Highway's interest in the matter - It's difficult to see what other issue there could possibly be.

I'm awaiting an email from the planning officer which may give me some more information, but I'm not holding my breath! If they get back to me confirming the Highway's objection, I'll ask them to confirm in writing exactly what the Highway's issue is and that this is the only issue. Assuming it is the only issue, I'll then respond and hopefully prove them wrong.