I really need some hot water pressure!!

[Solaron]

I have just moved into my first home (2 bed apartment on 2 stories) and i'm trying to start learning to get 'handy' at all things DIY.
Basically, i'll explain the problem as best i know it.

We have next to no hot water pressure. Out of the taps in the kitchen, our cold water pressure is EXCELLENT - truely excellent, but our hot water pressure is rubbish. it takes about 5 minutes to fill a sink. In the bathroom, it's the same story. Superb cold water pressure, non existant hot water pressure.

After investigating, our hot water cylinder's header tank, is incredibly low. It's mounted on top of the cylinder (an all in one thingy) meaning that any appliances below the water level of the top of the hot water part have no pressure at all. On top of that, our cylinder storage is incredibly low - i think it's around 40-50 litres. We're in a very high limescale area and our budget to get it all sorted is around £1,500. I NEED A SHOWER!! I SMELL!

So, from my understanding - my options are:

To get an impeller pump and a thermostatic mixer shower attached to the taps. Problem with this is that the hot and cold pressures will be totally different putting extra strain on a thermostatic mixer making it unlikely to work. This would also mean replacing the storage cylder to accomodate a greater amount of hot water.

To install a new Combi Boiler - a little overkill? surely!

To replace the cylinder with one of those new Mains Pressure cylinders (unvented steel cylinder??) - thus meaning the hot water pressure will be the same as cold meaning i can use a thermostatic tap shower and not worry about motors/electric showers clogging up with limescale. This would also mean that i would not need to have a seperate feed of cold water to the bathroom to adjust the cold water pressure (if i were to have a pump). The only problem with this is the copper piping size - i do not know what size (diameter) copper pipes can be used at mains pressure. I know at the moment, my cold water pipes are smaller in diameter than my hot water pipes.

So - basically, i am throwing it out there to get some advice. What would be the best way forward, are the new mains pressure cylinders worth it? I don't plan to do this by myself, but i would like to be involved.

Thankyou in advance... i will be eagerly checking this every 5 minutes as i really really do smell!

Chris

 

[chrishutt]

I have just moved into my first home

Oh dear, your whole childhood without a home! Hard to believe that such deprivation still exists in the UK. Anyway, you must be used to roughing it without hot water.

Seriously though, surely the cheapest option is to raise the cold water feed tank to provide better pressure. Can you not do this? Depending where you are in the country, £1.5k is not much to play with. Doubt if you'll cover a combi or unvented cylinder installation with that, unless you DIY.

 

[noonespecial]

Some suggestions:

1. unvented (direct mains cylinder) if your mains cold water flow rate / pressure is adequate - you need advice at your property from a plumber who is certified for such installation.

2. Combi boiler-this will provide heating to radiators as well - I assume you have not got heating present, so this could be a good investment for you - you need advice from a CORGI registered plumber at your property.

3. Install a booster pump on your hot water supply and increase hot water storage. Your current 50 litres (if that is what it is will only last a matter of minutes. You will also need a large cold water storage cistern to feed the cylinder. You could also modify the cold water (except the sink) to be fed from the cistern and boost both hot and cold to get equal water pressure. You could have a boiler to heat the cylinder and radiators.

4. Buy deodorant in bulk-will be cheaper

 

[Solaron]

I have just moved into my first home

Oh dear, your whole childhood without a home! Hard to believe that such deprivation still exists in the UK. Anyway, you must be used to roughing it without hot water.

Seriously though, surely the cheapest option is to raise the cold water feed tank to provide better pressure. Can you not do this? Depending where you are in the country, £1.5k is not much to play with. Doubt if you'll cover a combi or unvented cylinder installation with that, unless you DIY.

hehe... yeah, all that time roughing it.... First time buying is not as easy as it once was!

Anyway...

We can raise the cold water storage but only by half a metre or so which does us very little good. If i am right, installing an Unvented Steel Cylinder shouldn't be much different to a standard copper cylinder - if this is the case, then i know someone who is more than capable of fitting it. I am under no illusions that these things are easy!

With £1,500 - we can't get a new boiler - i've ruled that out already. We DO have central heating at present as we have a gas boiler in our kitchen (our cylinder is NOT immersion)

I am leaning very heavily toward the unvented cylinder - purely for ease. My concern is the size pipes i need for mains pressure and whether or not i will need to change my current piping because of it.

 

[chrishutt]

installing an Unvented Steel Cylinder shouldn't be much different to a standard copper cylinder

Not so simple, unfortunately. Firstly the work needs to be done, or at least overseen, by a plumber with the unvented ticket (qualification). This is because unvented cylinders are potentially dangerous and require a variety of safety devices installed in a prescribed fashion.
Apart from the question of the adequacy of your mains to deliver the flow required, you also need to have an emergency discharge pipe to outside. In some situations this can be difficult/expensive to accommodate. Also you may need to upgrade the circulation from the boiler. But you might be able to do all that within your budget.

Still worth considering the combi option if the existing boiler is nearing the end of its life or very inefficient to run.

By the way, my point about homes is that you don't have to own one to move into or live in one! It's not really your first home, is it?

 

[noonespecial]

By the way, my point about homes is that you don't have to own one to move into or live in one! It's not really your first home, is it?

Come on Chris he didn't get it and probably still doesn't. I am sure someone out there thought your dry sense of humour was funny though

And Solaron just to reiterate what Chris said that an unvented cylinder has to be installed or overseen by a certified person - it is not just desirable, it is the Law. These things can explode if not installed correctly.

 

[Softus]

Come on Chris he didn't get it and probably still doesn't. I am sure someone out there thought your dry sense of humour was funny though

Yes

Although, it has been said that "home is where the heart is". Perhaps no previous above felt, to Solaron, like home?

 

[Solaron]

I come from Mars. I was originally a bacteria on the red planet but due to a freak of nature, Superman, while fighting off Kryptonite, managed to transform me into a human being and then drop me into a home with a rubbish shower.

History aside,

I wasn't aware of the regulations with an unvented cylinder. I might be tempted to put in al electrically heated shower and also put in some kind of water softener to increase it's lifespan. Would this be practical? The only problem is the electric supply - our main fuse box is a few rooms away and all our walls are masonry. Plus those big white things i find really ugly!

 

[Softus]

Electric showers give an appalling flow, AND need an electrical supply. If you did get one then rather than spend £400 on a softener I would just buy five identical showers and replace it every time it break down - probably every year if you're in a hard water area.

Better than that would be a pumped shower that takes tank-fed hot & cold, but I believe that best of all for you is the Trevi Boost venturi shower.

Advantages:
Uses your stored hot water.
Gives reasonably good head (of water).
Looks pretty good.
Needs no electrical supply.

Disavantages:
Cost (circa £300)
Slightly weird internal mechanism and longevity is unknown.
Er, can't think of any other disadvantages.

 

[Solaron]

I think you're right.

Tank fed hold and cold will mean getting a larger tank with a larger head (water!) we only have another half metre clearance really so we cant make it that much bigger. this would mean i dont need a pump.

 

[Solaron]

doing a bit of research.......

Am i right in thinking that i need a certified unvented cylinder installer to simply VERIFY my installation?? In other words - in can get an uncertified plumber to install it and then get a certified plumber to come in and check it over and give it the tick? much like getting a Corgi guy round to give the nod to your work?

I know a good plumber you see who will install it for me for peanuts (literally, monkey nuts are his favourite) and then get a certified plumber around to give it the nod?

 

[ChrisR]

Check the capacity of your Hw cylinder, some of them are tiny. Also, if you start pumping it, you could be into trouble with sucking air; or if its header tank is small it'll run dry. How high is the ceiling?

You could use a thermal store instead, which would give mains pressure hot water. No need for special tickets but they are considered unusual. Nothing hard about them, really!
Have a browse at http://www.heatweb.com/
You still need a good mains supply flow - measure it, in litres per minute.

 

[Solaron]

Thermal Store??? that's exactly what i want! is that not an Unvented Steel Cylinder???? that's what i thought it was......... looks like i may have got confused

 

[Solaron]

is this a heat bank?

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...r+cylinder&fh_refview=search&ts=1144336161516

 

[Solaron]

sorry, this one!

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...r+cylinder&fh_refview=search&ts=1144336325401