I think it is time I changed this boiler

[gas4you]

That may well be, but my point is that I use the latest CHeSS as a selling point to my customers, so they know they are getting the latest in energy efficiency etc. I don't give them the option to pay less for an inferior system, I leave that to others.

My customers are prepared to pay more for a better system, hence I never get any work in the FTB housing market.

It all depends what your target customer is. I have a very defined area that I like my customers to be in, its no good targeting customers you know will probably not be able to afford your services.

 

[brentwood]

I do see your point and I always 'recommend' such- but I don't try and tell them that they have to upgrade everywhere on a boiler swap. Having told them the truth ocassionally one will opt only for bedrooms, especially when a new boiler wasn't part their financial master plan plan!
As for targetting customers- I don't vet or means test them over the phone and we only fit quality kit- but I won't let a boiler job go because of trv's when they're making a permissible choice that I don't agree with!

 

[EliteHeat]

I do see your point and I always 'recommend' such- but I don't try and tell them that they have to upgrade everywhere on a boiler swap. Having told them the truth ocassionally one will opt only for bedrooms, especially when a new boiler wasn't part their financial master plan plan!
As for targetting customers- I don't vet or means test them over the phone and we only fit quality kit- but I won't let a boiler job go because of trv's when they're making a permissible choice that I don't agree with!

I agree with that - don't talk yourself out of a job by a slavish adherence to the latest ridiculous dogma - if the customer doesn't want it don't force it on them.

 

[simond]

I would like to add my twopenny worth!

I cannot understand why any installer would not use a Powerflush machine, the results they deliver are always good and sometimes spectacular. It can only be good for the customer, we've been using them for 4 years and we've only popped a handful of rads which would have failed soon after anyway.

Regarding the TRV issue, this constantly crops up. No-one appears sure whether they have to be fitted everywhere - or just on bedrooms where a boiler replacement is being undertaken (rather than new build).

I have just read through the regs again - thanks for the links - and there are three scenarios given for space heating zoning and temperature control. The important word linking these scenarios is 'or'. My reading of it is that you do not need to fit TRVs to every rad bar one.

But I may have missed something.

Also, I think the many quango organsiations do not help here, because they all have their own interpretation of the Building Regs. I am thinking of HHIC, EST, etc etc. It is the Building Regs we have to follow.

 

[gas4you]

IAs for targetting customers- I don't vet or means test them over the phone and we only fit quality kit

I didn't mean I vet or means test them I meant that as a rule I know I will not win any quotes in certain areas of work, the FTB is a major one, I think my success rate in this market stands at about 1 or 2%, therefore I don't bother with this market, whereas the older more affluent market my quotes being accepted run at about 80%.

Of course customers can have what they want, it is their money and their decision. Obviously the 20% who don't accept my recommendations/quotes are making that choice, that is their perogitive, but I am too busy to have to worry about losing a few jobs

 

[Agile]

Do you installers normally insist on replacing ALL rad valves when you are converting from vented to a sealed system?

Or do you avoid the issue by keeping to a boiler which will work on a vented system?

Tony

 

[simond]

No, we do not. As an installer we leave the choice up to the customer, once i have travelled free to their house for a quote I am not going to lose the job over insisting on changing rad valves.

After all, when they were new they were designed to work on pressurised systems, just like the rads and pipework they are screwed onto. Where do you draw the line?

We could replace all the copper pipe and rads but arguably the quality 20 yrs ago is superior to what it is now.

 

[gas4you]

Tony, I make sure all rads have trv's except room with room stat whether its a sealed system or open vent. It is for the benefit of the customer in the end.

Simon, not disagreeing with you at all, but I personally would not carry out a boiler change without including all the trv's in my quote.

I see your point, but I do not worry whether this would lose or gain me the job. If the customer is worried about an extra £50-£100 when they are spending upwards of over £2000 + VAT, then they are not a suitable customer for me and obviously are out to get a job done on cost alone rather than the latest energy saving and quality installation that I provide.

But then we all run our business our own way and we all appear to be doing it successfully

 

[simond]

Dave

I see your point, but I have to find 48hrs of work every day of the week for my team.

We have 5 weeks booked work usually in hand for the them but I can't afford not to listen to what the customer wants. If they have 12 year old Pegler Terriers I can't see any justification for changing them with new ones. New ones will work just the same.

As for TRVs, unless anyone can convince me otherwise (and I am open to being convinced) the only mandatory areas we insist upon are sleeping areas.

It might amuse you to know that TRVs are very inaccurate and I think within the next ten years they will be history. TRVs can open if others on the circuit close, the pump pressure can crack them open; that is apart from the hysteresis of the wax or alcohol capsule heating up and cooling down.

Proper motored valve heads (such as Hometronic) are in contrast accurate to 0.1C and motor shut, so pump pressure can't push them open. They are the future, IMHO.

 

[gas4you]

I may live in a blinkered world Simon and I certainly do not have the concern of finding that amount of work, but would £100 really lose you a job?

Admittedly I am not in the same league as you in terms of size of business, but surely it must still remain down to the selling points and advantages to the customer, but then perhaps the next step up the ladder, so to speak, in business is more cut throat?

 

[brentwood]

£100 could lose you the job. Say you were measured against someone who impresses the customer exactly as you do, but who comes in that bit cheaper without the extra trv's? Job gone unless the customer is well informed and has been made aware of how to compare the two.
But how about this. Looked at two jobs one Sunday. By the vibes of the both I was home and dry although the second was a ditherer. Got a call from the first saying they'd gone with someone else because I was too pricey. Checked the two quotes and found I'd mixed up the prices, first a grand too much- second too little!
Apologised to the first for wasting both our time who then asked what the price would have been. Still more but I would have got it. The second never came back- thank heavens!