ICE told to get the eff out

[motorbiking]

Was he resisting?
Was he armed?
Was he under control?

What else do we need to consider?

 

[MNW67]

So his intent was to use it then?

I don't really understand why people carry hand guns. But most claim it is for self defence. It is just part of the normal daily attire for these people. They carry them everywhere. It's a very different country.

 

[MNW67]

Was he resisting?
Was he armed?
Was he under control?

What else do we need to consider?

It is not clear what are you trying to determine.

But the answers are:

No
Yes at first, but disarmed by the time he was shot.
Yes

 

[Highway Man]

Was he resisting?
Was he armed?
Was he under control?

What else do we need to consider?

He was armed to the teeth, makes Rambo look wanting

 

[motorbiking]

It is not clear what are you trying to determine.

if it was or could be lawful use of deadly force, obviously

But the answers are:

No

The video I have watched shows a person interfering, getting sprayed, trying to stop someone else being apprehended and then getting taken down and resisting every step of the way - In his defence, while I have no experience of it, I imagine a face full of pepper spray would make you like that.

Yes at first, but disarmed by the time he was shot.

they did not know he was disarmed, they knew he had at least 1 hand gun and two clips

Yes

in handcuffs or pinned down?

New consideration:
- the officials claim he had no ID. The permit to carry is ID, so does that mean he was not carrying his permit to carry?

Why would a person not bring iD to an ICE enforcement, surely he would know he might need to 1 show lawful authority to carry and 2 that he was a US citizen.

 

[motorbiking]

This video is interesting

watch the girl with the pink rucksack and the woman in the tan brown coat. These are not "observers".

 

[MNW67]

they did not know he was disarmed, they knew he had at least 1 hand gun and two clips

They had taken his only gun away. To answer your original question, no he was not armed when they shot him.

in handcuffs or pinned down?

Pinned down by between five and seven officers. Totally immobilised on his knees with his arms restrained.

the officials claim he had no ID. The permit to carry is ID, so does that mean he was not carrying his permit to carry?

Almost everything else they have said so far is a lie.

 

[motorbiking]

They had taken his only gun away. To answer your original question, no he was not armed when they shot him.

how did they know that?

Pinned down by between five and seven officers. Totally immobilised on his knees with his arms restrained.

Is there a picture/still?

Almost everything else they have said so far is a lie.

but if true, that changes everything.

 

[MNW67]

but if true, that changes everything.

Only with hindsight

how did they know that?

Are you suggesting that it was OK to kill him, just in case he had another gun.

Is there a picture/still?

Yes, there are quite a few good ones now online.

 

[MNW67]

This is the moment when the officer in the grey top removes the gun from the victim's holster. The victim is clearly immobilised on his knees.

 

[JP_]

So you may want to live in a lawless society and have everyone walking around with guns threatening people including law enforcement officers, I don't want that, I prefer to live within the law where the law protects me.

But that's exactly what's not happening in America today.

 

[motorbiking]

Having watched a video, I think this might be the excessive force example @MNW67 has been looking for - timing of the shots. I think you have your "execution".

There is some suggestion online that the first shot was accidental.

 

[MNW67]

Having watched a video, I think this might be the excessive force example @MNW67 has been looking for - timing of the shots. I think you have your "execution".

There is some suggestion online that the first shot was accidental.

That seems most likely now. Does that change things. It looks to me like the other agents were startled by an accidental shot and just started firing madly at the victim. Would that make it less of an 'execution'.

 

[motorbiking]

There is a shot, a second shot a pause and 3-5 more.

I think the 3-5 more are a problem

 

[MNW67]

There is a shot, a second shot a pause and 3-5 more.

I think the 3-5 more are a problem

I think there's actually a few more a bit later, just to make sure that he is definitely dead. Eleven shots in total, they say.